Western - Auto Club Speedway US Majors

Jason@SportsCar":3rqz918o said:
We had some new/returning faces with Jeff, Ben and David. I got the Sat win, while Brian and Ben had a good battle for second, with Ben taking it.
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Was Ben driving a Midget or a Bugeye?
 
hpmowog":xctca00q said:
Jason@SportsCar":xctca00q said:
We had some new/returning faces with Jeff, Ben and David. I got the Sat win, while Brian and Ben had a good battle for second, with Ben taking it.
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Was Ben driving a Midget or a Bugeye?
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MG. Nice looking car.
 
:oops: Sorry guys, was thinking production cars.

Joe, when there are cheaters around, borrow the CCC. But then as someone else on this site says, cheating in production or GTL, naw, no way.
 
This was not a "cheat", e.g., plunge cutting or an out of tolerance part.

This was someone running a car in GTL that wasn't a GTL car. Comparing this to SM is apples to oranges.

The issues are:
- Why was the non GTL car run in GTL.
- Why didn't tech spot this and do something about it.

We will look more deeply into this. But this isn't a GTL issue.

-Kyle
 
Craig Carter, who was screwed by this situation, responded to Troy's posting on the GT Facebook page.

What are you supposed to do??? Stand up and be an honest sportsman and don't steal points from the other class members. We all knew your car was not in the proper class, and because your GTL car broke Saturday we naively said we would let you run with us if you didn't screw it up for everyone else. Instead you had to show off and pass the whole field on the first lap, and then pull off on the last lap too late to avoid getting scored as the winner, then stand on the podium and accept the trophy like you really deserved it.
 
Note for the future - when someone says 'hey do you mind if I run my turbo civic in SSC' you say, 'only if you run half the laps plus one, or less.'

Character can't be counted on any more. It's not the world we live in.

Honestly, this one is on the Majors program. What's the point of impound if they're not going to check the very aspect of the class that makes it a class? (The SIR).

I don't care what the rules are. This one got hammed up by those in charge. Maybe rules need to change, if they kept any official from fixing this. If the officials didn't know, or didn't care, I don't know how to fix that.

Maybe I should buy a Z06 and start winning FV :) (Assuming I could!)
 
This one is also on the competitors in the class for:
1. Allowing him to run it in the first place
2. not protesting him the second they got to impound and saw he 'won'.


Similar situation with me in EP a few weeks ago at a Divisional.. I pulled the splitter + wing and ran my STU car in EP with 17" wheels and big brakes.. the 225 DOTs certainly negated any advantage of the larger wheels and brakes, but the car was still illegal for EP. rules is rules.

On Saturday, I finished 3rd in EP so it wasn't a big deal. The 4th place car was an FP car running in EP just for fun and was- as usual- about 10 sec off the pace. I expected the same results on Sunday, but I got a better start and got ahead of traffic. My plan was to pull in a lap early, but then I got caught up racing with a GT3 car and 'forgot', finishing first in EP. I was reminded of my cheaty car when I got to impound and since my fellow competitors were not going to protest, I went to the stewards and had them move me to last in class. 5 min of paperwork and the right cars were in the right place on the results sheet. It was a simple process for me, but it took the stewards longer to figure out how to make it happen (how often does a competitor protest themselves?) than it did to run the race.
 
Matt congrats on doing the right thing. If the driver in question had done so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I guess I can return the Z06.
 
If I was in GTL at that race, you can be damn sure I'd protest another driver for running an obviously illegal car. Just not OK.


...then again.. They got beat by a T4 car.. how fast is a T4 car compared to a GTL? ;)
(different can of worms I know..)
 
Matt93SE":25mb5jlv said:
If I was in GTL at that race, you can be damn sure I'd protest another driver for running an obviously illegal car. Just not OK.
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I've sung this song before, however, there appears to be no rhyme or reason when post-race tech will do basic checks. It's been my complaint for years.

Then they pick on something ridiculous like looking to see if you have 'too wide' of an air gap between your fender and headlight, which happened to me at the runoffs. Dude, I'm shitty at body work. If I go back to the paddock and try to fix it, I'll be lucky if it still looks like a miata when I'm done.

It's OK I'll still run SCCA. But we can do better than this. I think someone should be getting their ass chewed, but that's just me. I'm not a big Majors fan, and little things like this just reinforce my opinion.
 
That's the rub.. even when the tech officials didn't dump the car, it's the competitors responsibility to do it. Both sides failed to act, and they had ample opportunity.
 
There really is no good reason to allow an illegal car to race in a class it doesn't belong in. Matt did the right thing but really the right thing is to get the car legal for the class. Your car being in the race has an effect on the race itself.

Its hard enough to ask the officials to do the right thing but it gets even harder we as a group we look the other way.

There is actually a rule that covers this.


9.1.12. CARS RUN IN THE PROPER CLASS
A. All cars shall race in their respective classes.
B. Cars should not be run in classes and/or categories for which
they were not designed or intended. The Series Chief Steward or
Chief Steward must approve the proposed classification. He will
not approve if the car is so dissimilar or the car/driver combination
otherwise unsuitable that it is a hazard or impediment to fair
competition among the other cars in the class and race group.
 
Joe Harlan":3kfkcn4a said:
There really is no good reason to allow an illegal car to race in a class it doesn't belong in. Matt did the right thing but really the right thing is to get the car legal for the class. Your car being in the race has an effect on the race itself.
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I agree, but also keep in mind that the only thing illegal about my STU car in EP is the aero, wheels, and brakes-- I had the aero off already for repairs and the DOT tires are narrower than the slicks allowed in EP. Thus those heavy wheels and brakes only slow it down and should be slower than an EP car whether legal or not. All other bodywork, car prep, etc done to the car for STU is all legal for EP. (I only ran it to get the number of local EP entries up for participation numbers that the CRB doesn't care about anway.) This is a MUCH smaller difference in prep levels than running a T4 car in GTL.
 
Matt93SE":2trfyyui said:
This one is also on the competitors in the class for:
1. Allowing him to run it in the first place
2. not protesting him the second they got to impound and saw he 'won'.
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1. Assuming you have an annual registration is always going to let you run, its an entry fee. The entrant is responsible for entering a legal car for the class, and sometimes people don't do the right thing.

2. How did you know in impound he had won? This has shocked me since the day I started Club Racing, you never see a copy of the results, you may not know he won until you are standing next to him on the podium. In Solo at a Natl event results are presented to the drivers before everyone is released from impound, that is your opportunity to point out there is a problem with timing and scoring.
 
Note that on all entry forms (at least the ones around here in MI) all have a signature line that the driver or entrant has to sign. This is done so the signed document is a contract. By signing, you've entered into a contract with the region stipulating you'll attend the event with a compliant car. Not only is it good sportsmanship to run a compliant car in the given class but you've agreed to do so.

A lot of cars are legal in more than one class. Hell my HP Sprite can be an FP or GTL car. We all assume the best of people. I can see letting a guy run a car to get a finish. I've seen it before. But if you do that you owe it to your colleagues to pull off at the half way point. Get your finish and get off track.

Dayle
 
8.1.2. Request for Action
The Series Chief Steward or Chief Steward may submit to the SOM a Request for Action (RFA) describing a suspected breach of the GCR or the Supplemental Regulations, asking the SOM to investigate and determine whether there was a breach, and what, if any, penalties to impose. The Series Chief Steward or Chief Steward cannot submit an RFA for any single violation of the rules for which he has already imposed a penalty allowed in 5.12.3. An RFA resulting from a post-race impound inspection may be submitted within a reasonable time following the discovery of the suspected breach. All other RFAs must be submitted to the SOM within 30 minutes after the results of the final race of the event are posted, although the SOM may approve an extension of time.
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did anyone talk to the stewards after the race and after the results were posted? Push the CS/SCS to file an RFA..
If they refuse to do it, then protest the officials.. (competitors have a right to protest the tech officials and stewards for not doing their jobs.)

8.1.4. Protests
Any entrant, driver, crew, organizer, or official participating in an event may protest any decision, act, or omission of another entrant, driver, crew, organizer, official, or any other person connected with that event whose actions the protestor believes to be in error or which violate the GCR, the Supplemental Regulations, or any condition involving SCCA’s sanction of the event, except where exemption from protest is specified elsewhere in the GCR or the event Supplementary Regulations.
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Protests must:
8.3.1.F. be filed within the time limits specified below, although the SOM may extend the time in cases where the protestor can show that evidence relating to the Protest was not available within the time limit, or where the protestor can show that he was unable to meet the deadline because of circumstances beyond his control.

Protest Type: Validity of an entry, Rules compliance of an entrant, driver, or car
Time Limit: No later than one hour before the start of the race session of the competition for the issue in question. Cars in impound may be protested within 30 minutes after any session.

Type: Starting (Grid) position
Limit: Within 30 minutes after the grid is posted.

Type: Driver’s on track behavior Within 30 minutes after the end of the session
Limit: Race results Within 30 minutes after results are posted.

Type: Race officials’s action or decision
Limit: Within 30 minutes after the end of the session OR within 30 minutes of receiving the notification of the official’s action.
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I think it would be reasonable to protest him as soon as the results were posted since that's the first notification of the official's act of omission in allowing an obviously non-compliant car to race. Also, while it was a gentleman's agreement that the T4 car would pull off and not win the race, there could have also been a gentleman's agreement that a protest be filed and then withdrawn post-race if he did the right thing.

Again, I completely agree that the techs/stewards should have caught it before it ever got on track. But *everyone* has the right (and responsibility) to call out a cheating car, and to call out an official who isn't doing their job. nobody did any of the above until after the race when the complaining started.
 
Hi Folks

The Sunday results posted on scca.com showing Troy as the winner were posted in error. Troy was protested and the protest was upheld. Troy was DQ'd from Sunday's race. In Troy's defense, he only ever intended to run enough to get credit for the finish. He pulled in on the last lap (showing his intention to not win), but was scored as the winner anyway. The protest and DQ fixed this. Troy told me that this was ok with him. The only error here was the publication of the wrong results.

Saturday's race results (Wickersham win) are being discussed with RJ Gordy, Tom Wickersham, and others to see if the right outcome can be had. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Stay tuned.

-Kyle
 
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