Revised Point Structure for 2013 Majors, National Races

[glenwood]

This is not political comment – just reality ….. Governor Romney relates how his success in business will provide him the insight and knowledge to make the right government decisions for the economy to grow and create jobs – the hitch – big business in order to create jobs borrows millions and acquires massive debt – Romney is running on a campaign adamantly against increased Federal spending and debt – he needs to convince others to incur the debt and the spending – what gives them this confidence ?? The Board has to convince the racers to spend the money (make the sacrifice; take on the debt) with the overriding uncertainty of how the future will play out – unfortunately not all is created equal – black and white world three economic classes the racers fall into – those where the economic challenges of racing bury them – those in the middle who need to make a sacrifice (this or that) to be at the top – those where the costs are no burden – for the moment it seems those with no burden are in the driving seat – they don’t really care what you call it or the where or when – they just need to know to get their airplane ticket – with the massive difference in the economic base there will always be problems which can not be avoided – the reality if you want to play with the big boys and their fancy toys you need to be flexible and passive – only one cow gets the bell – and that cow will always find it’s way to the milking barn …..

 

[Mark Coffin]

Make it easier to go to Nats, more will go. That is marketing 101.
Make more hoops or more cost, less will bother. MY prediction.

Then just make the Runoffs an "open" event. No qualifications necessary. Any SCCA license holder can enter any class they want (with an eligible car of course). Kind of like the ARRC. The ARRC is a cool event, but in reality it's just another regional race. It's NOT a national championship.

If you do that, then of course then it's just another race, literally, and nothing special. Or you can simply pick any race during the year and call it the 'National Championships". Same difference. We could promote the Prod Fest winners as the "national champions" for example.

It's SUPPOSED to be hard to get to the Runoffs and win it. IMHO. That's what made it so special. The work all during the year trying to qualify was magnified as the season drew to a close. Sometimes the best and fastest racers didn't make it, but that's what made it so intriguing.

These "half-baked" systems of qualifying for the Runoffs are worse than nothing at all.

The Runoffs became a cash cow for SCCA and it ruined national racing for the regions and ultimately for the racers.

MC

 

[Protech Racing]

I respect your opinion Mark,
If you want the best competition, the nats should be open. If you are racing checkbooks, raise the entry to $10,000 and do away with BS. That is pretty much how it is done now.
Business wise. I get rentals for Nat guys with blown up cars, looking for points. If the nats were open, many rental guys would lose sales, myself included.
Sorry to say that SCCA rentals are very poor, while CHumpcar guys are waiting inline for my 3 cars. Some of the same drivers. Fun factor and maturity of drivers that realise that racing is just for fun at most levels, even pro . it still needs to be fun.

Many racers are just people, like most, the path of least resistance is the path often sought . Make things a PIA and the same people will look for a 24hr Chumpcar race . Not good for SCCA. This entire attitude is why Chumpcar is doing well.
Chumpcar will implode due to lack of rules and escalating development cost, but so far it is strong.

 

[Jay R. Creel]

Racing for a regional title and then moving on to attempt to compete at the National level is the traditional model. What has caused this to be an issue is the constant addition of classes from what I can gather. Cars needed to be added to classes not classes for cars. What irritates me is that we have a large number of developed race cars sitting in barns with what I would gather no chance of being back on track in the current configuration or by the current owner.

I have been on the NASA site a bit and I do not see much difference in the "participants" from SCCA (age, demo, etc) so getting younger racers is not the complete solution so why not focus on those that have been loyal to the success of the SCCA and get those cars on the track. This is not limited to just the prod community.

I am a fan of FF, FV, S2000 FC as well and the cars are getting less and less. How does any of this help grow the participation with the guys who have the means and the cars but would rather keep them on stands. It is a shame. This sport has great traditions and in the SCCA and getting all the cars they can back on track would help to bring some new cars from regional racing and have the additional programs to keep those big money and manufacturer cars coming as well.

Why does this seem to simple to make any sense?

 

[James Rogerson]

There are over 6,000 licensed drivers and only 300 or so go to the runoffs. Why would you change your entire business model for the 300 and not for the 5,700?

James R.

 

[Joe Harlan]

There are over 6,000 licensed drivers and only 300 or so go to the runoffs. Why would you change your entire business model for the 300 and not for the 5,700?

James R.

Because the National office makes its money on the 300 for one event.

 

[xr4racer]

I hate to put actual facts on here but there were 2075 national drivers who started at least 1 national race this year. If I remember correctly there were 474 drivers who actually raced in the runoffs this year. This is quite different than the 300 cited in an above post. There may indeed be 6000 drivers in the SCCA, I would think it is more but I do not know.

matt

 

[James Rogerson]

All you need to do is look at the number of people that hit the points table. Then look at how many people that enter the runoffs that are not in the local pool. That will only give you the National drivers and not the regional drivers. There are more regional series drivers than national drivers. Actually, we have about 9,000 licensed drivers in the data last supplied to me by the national office.

You have to be careful with the National lists as there are several people, like myself, that have multiple class cars and do multiple entries in races.

Trying to make the runoffs a club need is foolish at best.

James R.

 

[David Dewhurst]

There have been many questions & answers about the U.S. Majors Tour & while I was surfing the following showed. Hope it helps a bit along with all the previous posts.

http://www.sccamajors.com/details/SCCA_members_facts_sheet2012.pdf

 

[Harold Flescher]

Lick I said up front, racing for rich folks. With gas $4 a gallon, I no longer just have to race in SED, but in NED also. That almost doubles my tow length, and the average tow becomes West Plam to VIR instead of it being my longest tow. That means for the NED racer, a six day trip. They do this and worry about the length of the runoffs? Every race at the end of your double division (can't remember the other stupid name) will be as far as the runoffs. So to race all races in your Double Division (which sounds like a better name to me), a normal person (I know you're not normal, I mean work for a living, don't have a crew to proceed you, or are rent-a-racers, needs at least one-third more time on the road to participate. I won't let them forget when the numbers come out that they are creating a much richer mans sport.
You do notice that they have big sponsiorship for doing this to us, ergo more money to corporate to support the other parts of the club that are hanging on by a string - "let club racing pay for it". It's been out mantre for a very long time and it isn't changing. They only have one cash cow.
My great hope is that people only race the close ones so they can see that the winners of the double divisions come from the rich racer clan.
I know they are trying to solve a problem (or a perceived problem) with this change, but:
1. I'm not sure they have identified the right problem to solve (nor do I think that, after discussing so long they are not in group think)(I'd love to see if they had any outside consulting support on this, from who, and what the report read)
2. Have forgotten what they have learned about the runoffs from the drivers - too many days and distance makes it worse.
3. Do I think it enables them to focus on better prescribed classes, that will be easier to advertize, yes indeed and they will suck more cars into these classes (that means from other classes folks since racing ain't growing)
4. The focus classes are absolutely going to be those with new and newish cars in them, feeding their gaping maws (love that word) with Ad money.
5. Follow the cycle, older and less subscribed cars will slowly trickle off this earth.
Maybe this will be good for our sport. Maybe they know better than me (send out the f-ing rules already).
I've been wrong before, but as a betting man I don't think I'm wrong now. The carefully worded hints tell me that perhaps the top 3 from each class in each division from their what must be new national/regional setup will also go. And to win those one simply has to go to alot of races and accumulate points. So the mantra of the new system has to be "the best rich drivers in the country"

And I'll tell you what really pisses me off. All of you agree with me http://prodracing.com/prodcar/posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=124274#

There have been many questions & answers about the U.S. Majors Tour & while I was surfing the following showed. Hope it helps a bit along with all the previous posts.

http://www.sccamajors.com/details/SCCA_members_facts_sheet2012.pdf

 

[R. J. Sorensen]

One obvious question pops into my mind. If 80 National races has "diminished" participation, why not REDUCE the number of National races? Topeka issues sanction numbers (insurance?), Topeka could limit the number of National races per division.

The Run-Offs have ceased to be a "National Championship" and have become a "Season Finale Festival". All are welcome. All in an attempt to show huge participation numbers (Topeka would love to exceed 750) so it can be Marketed to Corporate sponsors, not to Market the club to prospective new members.

Squeeze the few remaining "turnips" a little tighter.

I still don't understand.

RJS

 

[David Dewhurst]

Harold, just as all humans follow a life cycle, cars follow a life cycle (race cars included) and this Majors deal may be the back end of the SCCA life, back to the rich & then the same place our lives cycle to. :roll:

 

[Harold Flescher]

I'm not sure what you just said David

Harold, just as all humans follow a life cycle, cars follow a life cycle (race cars included) and this Majors deal may be the back end of the SCCA life, back to the rich & then the same place our lives cycle to. :roll:

 

[David Dewhurst]

I'm not sure what you just said David

Harold, just as all humans follow a life cycle, cars follow a life cycle (race cars included) and this Majors deal may be the back end of the SCCA life, back to the rich & then the same place our lives cycle to. :roll:

Most everything follows a cycle before death.

 

[Mazda Jon]

Harold, no one says you have to go to VIR to qualify for the Runoffs. It's good to see you so concerned since it looks like you only ran 1 National last year and haven't been to the Runoffs in a couple years.

Run 6 Regionals (the new word for Rationals since everyone is invited) and go to the Runoffs. Looks like starting on January 1st there are 9 Regional weekends in Florida without having to go north of Daytona. Thats not counting the 2 in November and 1 in December. 6 Regionals to qualify for the Runoffs is the number I keep hearing.

Or

Run the Conference races and drive all over the Eastcoast and qualify.

Nationals won't exist anymore, they are called Majors Events. We had 10 Nationals last year for a 75 car Division. I'd rather have a Super Tour and 1 or 2 Showcase events.

Rationals won't exist anymore, they are called Regionals. A Rational was only a National race that Regional classes could race at. Maybe they shouldn't call them Regionals anymore and should just call them Rationals.

I guess the dreaded Solo people must be the rich elite in the SCCA. The ProSolo Tour is a huge success with events reaching their entry caps months before the events. They had 8 events from the Eastcoast to Westcoast with a huge following. All for 5-10 minutes of track time.

In review:

By 2014, there will be two types of events in the Club Racing program – Regionals and Majors.

Q: What are the elements of the Majors program?
A: There are currently four:
• BFGoodrich Tires Super Tours are the same as they have been, similar to traditional Double Nationals (at least one per Conference).
• Showcases are double race events where all National classes are invited and the best subscribed receive prime-time slots (3-4 per Conference).
• Invitationals are double race events for best-subscribed classes in a Conference (a goal of one per Conference).
• Festivals are special events such as a class anniversary or specific marque, and will be occasional by nature (a goal of one per Conference but not required).

 

[Harold Flescher]

Wow. Either you have a spy that tells you what the BoD said they would tell us at PRI or you are full of crap.

I don't need a ton of races behind me for 2012 to voice my thoughts, nor will I make any excuses for how I chose to spend my time. If one had to have 9 podium finishes at the runoffs to voice their thoughts, you would be silent while I kept talking. So get that burning stick out of that dark, wet place and turn on your brain.

No one has told us what the relationship between regionals and qualifying for the runoffs will be in 2014. If we do the "better than 50% of the avg points of racers" bit while adding 10 points for majors finishes, there won't be anyone who qualifies for the runoffs through regionals anyway.
Relating racing to solos is inane. Not that I know a lot about solo although I started in gymkanahs with Janet Guthrie in her 120 in the early '60s, but I don't think people run Prosolo to qualify for the solo runoffs, it is a pro solo, maybe I'm wrong. That is what the majors is going to be; pros and rich people/rent-a-racers running around the country with the locals running with them when they run majors locally.
Your arguments haven't held water. If you want to qualify through the majors, buy a gas trucking company and hire a crew. This is becoming pro racing again and I'm anxious to see what they do that will make it possible to qualify for the runoffs without traipsing all around the East coast.

Harold, no one says you have to go to VIR to qualify for the Runoffs. It's good to see you so concerned since it looks like you only ran 1 National last year and haven't been to the Runoffs in a couple years.

Run 6 Regionals (the new word for Rationals since everyone is invited) and go to the Runoffs. Looks like starting on January 1st there are 9 Regional weekends in Florida without having to go north of Daytona. Thats not counting the 2 in November and 1 in December. 6 Regionals to qualify for the Runoffs is the number I keep hearing.

Or

Run the Conference races and drive all over the Eastcoast and qualify.

Nationals won't exist anymore, they are called Majors Events. We had 10 Nationals last year for a 75 car Division. I'd rather have a Super Tour and 1 or 2 Showcase events.

Rationals won't exist anymore, they are called Regionals. A Rational was only a National race that Regional classes could race at. Maybe they shouldn't call them Regionals anymore and should just call them Rationals.

I guess the dreaded Solo people must be the rich elite in the SCCA. The ProSolo Tour is a huge success with events reaching their entry caps months before the events. They had 8 events from the Eastcoast to Westcoast with a huge following. All for 5-10 minutes of track time.

In review:

By 2014, there will be two types of events in the Club Racing program – Regionals and Majors.

Q: What are the elements of the Majors program?
A: There are currently four:
• BFGoodrich Tires Super Tours are the same as they have been, similar to traditional Double Nationals (at least one per Conference).
• Showcases are double race events where all National classes are invited and the best subscribed receive prime-time slots (3-4 per Conference).
• Invitationals are double race events for best-subscribed classes in a Conference (a goal of one per Conference).
• Festivals are special events such as a class anniversary or specific marque, and will be occasional by nature (a goal of one per Conference but not required).

 

[Mazda Jon]

WOW is right. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by a personal attack, after all, this is the prodsite.

Here I was thinking, great Harold is all wound up and already talking about going to VIR to get qualified after taking some time off. Another top guy in FP at the Runoffs, thats what makes FP the race to watch.

So, I qualified my 6 Regionals with, Thats what I had heard.

This is from the Majors site

By 2014, there will be two types of events in the Club Racing program – Regionals and Majors.

Q: What are the elements of the Majors program?
A: There are currently four:
• BFGoodrich Tires Super Tours are the same as they have been, similar to traditional Double Nationals (at least one per Conference).
• Showcases are double race events where all National classes are invited and the best subscribed receive prime-time slots (3-4 per Conference).
• Invitationals are double race events for best-subscribed classes in a Conference (a goal of one per Conference).
• Festivals are special events such as a class anniversary or specific marque, and will be occasional by nature (a goal of one per Conference but not required).

I was also unaware that I needed podium finishes to post here. In the last 5 years you have 1 Runoffs finish of 7th. In the last 5 years I have no podiums , but 5 finishes with an average of 6.8.

Boy, the things I've typed here, but I'll take the high road.

 

[Curtis]

Very hard to believe but gotta ask. Where exactly did you hear 6 John?

As hard as it is to believe how short on details, and late in the game, the other changes have been made, I can't believe a change that big would still be coming. Never crossed my mind for a moment that it would not be 4 just like it is now, or that it would have been changed before, with the original announcement.

 

[James Rogerson]

My director told us 6 regionals, but there was something about three different tracks.
James

 

[Harold Flescher]

Indeed the very slow high road. It's all yours. Lots of experience there after all
All mouth.
No foot

WOW is right. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by a personal attack, after all, this is the prodsite.

Here I was thinking, great Harold is all wound up and already talking about going to VIR to get qualified after taking some time off. Another top guy in FP at the Runoffs, thats what makes FP the race to watch.

So, I qualified my 6 Regionals with, Thats what I had heard.

This is from the Majors site

By 2014, there will be two types of events in the Club Racing program – Regionals and Majors.

Q: What are the elements of the Majors program?
A: There are currently four:
• BFGoodrich Tires Super Tours are the same as they have been, similar to traditional Double Nationals (at least one per Conference).
• Showcases are double race events where all National classes are invited and the best subscribed receive prime-time slots (3-4 per Conference).
• Invitationals are double race events for best-subscribed classes in a Conference (a goal of one per Conference).
• Festivals are special events such as a class anniversary or specific marque, and will be occasional by nature (a goal of one per Conference but not required).

I was also unaware that I needed podium finishes to post here. In the last 5 years you have 1 Runoffs finish of 7th. In the last 5 years I have no podiums , but 5 finishes with an average of 6.8.

Boy, the things I've typed here, but I'll take the high road.