Hp and 2 litre ITB cars

Protech Racing":i3w1310p said:
L3 for 1.8 and over cars;
Stock intake/TB
Stock internals ,any fasteners
Stock compression plus .5, with any metal pistons
Stock lift cam, any duration and springs, ( or spec the lift for easier tech at 410 ) ?
Stock valve and stem size.
IT port rule.
Adjust weight as needed .

BMW 318I, BMW 320, Volvo 142, Pinto? ,
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Why not just call it IT max? Seriously, how much HP do you honestly think could be made with the CA20DE, the 914 2.0, etc even with a 10-11:1 compression, no porting, maybe stock cam lift and stock induction? Not enough to make it a threat to HP.
 
Protech Racing":3kk69way said:
L3 for 1.8 and over cars;
Stock intake/TB
Stock internals ,any fasteners
Stock compression plus .5, with any metal pistons
Stock lift cam, any duration and springs, ( or spec the lift for easier tech at 410 ) ?
Stock valve and stem size.
IT port rule.
Adjust weight as needed .

BMW 318I, BMW 320, Volvo 142, Pinto? ,
Click to expand...

If two liter cars are classified in HP I would hope they would get individually developed specs based on the characteristics of each car and engine. I would also hope we would pilot one or two cars to see how they fit in practice before making a mass classification. Of course I still strongly prefer speeding cars up in the faster class if possible rather than making them tanks in a slower class.

The thing about this topic is that it is easy to become enamored with the prospect of several new builds entering a class from new classifications. The reality is that it will take years for more than one or two to show up, but you do risk losing multiple existing cars immediately if it is not done cautiously.
 
Lets face it, the cars we are referring to are pretty rare and more than likely not going to ever be built. How many 200SXs have you seen racing EVER? LOL. With the value of the 914 in the vintage world, I don't see more than a few folks wanting to convert one for HP. While mid engine, without the ability to fix the OE suspension geometry allowed under the full prep rules, I''m not sure it can be that competitive. What can a Pinto make in 2.0 trim? 130hp maybe? Maybe 140whp? I don't see that being a big choice for moving to HP.

I think opening the ability to class individual cars should be allowed if it can be reasonably shown they aren't going to come in as huge over dogs. Class the specific cars requested and let them run, see what they can do and adjust as necessary.


I have talked my customer out of Prod for his 200SX. Tried to talk him into the EP 240SX for sale, but he is not at a place in life where he is ready for that.
 
I tried at one point to get my dad's, and now my, FP 914 classed in HP.

Fully prep, but cannot get anywhere close to weight.

Even if you dragged Finch's 914 out and put an Indy car driver in it, it could not compete in todays FP.

So why not put the 914 in HP, add a restrictor or ballast it up, and let it run? I have this fresh faced 21 year old running an SRF I would love to put in it and make it a 3 generation car.

What does a good HP car make at the crank these days?

Think I'll send another letter......
 
Scott Sanda":38q76ziy said:
I tried at one point to get my dad's, and now my, FP 914 classed in HP.

Fully prep, but cannot get anywhere close to weight.

Even if you dragged Finch's 914 out and put an Indy car driver in it, it could not compete in todays FP.
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Case and point for why we need a class in between F and H. GP is not coming back, I get it... but that car can't compete in F anymore, and a full prep F car in H would dominate. What about a full prep chassis, limited prep motor (L1/L2) hybrid spec line?
 
Stiner0931":6zqlaabg said:
Scott Sanda":6zqlaabg said:
I tried at one point to get my dad's, and now my, FP 914 classed in HP.

Fully prep, but cannot get anywhere close to weight.

Even if you dragged Finch's 914 out and put an Indy car driver in it, it could not compete in todays FP.
Click to expand...

Case and point for why we need a class in between F and H. GP is not coming back, I get it... but that car can't compete in F anymore, and a full prep F car in H would dominate. What about a full prep chassis, limited prep motor (L1/L2) hybrid spec line?
Click to expand...

No dog in the fight here, but how many cars would fit into that niche? Should SCCA create/modify a class for that many cars? What's the realistic "payback" for making that happen? *My opinion* is that it would be a lot of work for seemingly few cars, no? How dramatically would it improve participation at local and national levels? Is this going to get hundreds of cars out of the garage, or tens?

.....Just asking questions, not trying to stir trouble.
 
I’m with you Matt. I don’t think putting the FP 914 in H would get more than 2-3 cars out. But per Chris’ point earlier, it would most likely alienate current racers and the class could lose more than it gains.

I do like the idea of an “XP” experimental class for this reason. Put the cars there to see how many show up and evaluate performance potential before officially classifying them and disrupting a healthy class.
 
How would a Volvo running a few seconds behind your time alienate anyone?
No I dont expect any cars to be built to these specs, simply bring the old ITB cars out of storage, take some stuff out for weight and come and race.
Youse guys are over thinking it ..
Keep the weights high enough and speed them up as required over time . Not rocket science .
 
Protech Racing":wgfugtqd said:
How would a Volvo running a few seconds behind your time alienate anyone?
No I dont expect any cars to be built to these specs, simply bring the old ITB cars out of storage, take some stuff out for weight and come and race.
Youse guys are over thinking it ..
Keep the weights high enough and speed them up as required over time . Not rocket science .
Click to expand...


For that matter, SP and ITE are "regional only" classes which will do exactly that- they don't need a class created specifically for them just to get on track. Make current safety and pay your entry fee. Run in whatever trim and prep you want in either of those classes, and then you have event results to submit to CRB as concrete evidence of participation and competitiveness.
 
Protech Racing":35gz4m7i said:
I dint know that you raced HP. Matt.
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I don't and openly stated as such 5 posts up, sir. I'm just trying to offer my input and assistance.

Put the 'disenfranchised' cars in a catch-all class and build 'em how you want. show what they CAN do, then submit results to the CRB and ask for inclusion in the class that fits them best.

same philosophy anywhere else. "cars are on the bench because they can't race in XXXX class" well they CAN race in a different class. bring them out, show the glass house that racers are interested and make the case for your particular request Letter after letter of "I would come out and race if you would only allow ___________", yet few ever show up.

Happy Friday. :)
 
I see that my letter has been tabled for the Volvo .
Can we please have some sort of template for the progression of 2.0 litre ITB cars into HP ? We dont want over achievers for sure but they should be inside of 1.5percent at max development.
 
If any new classifications happen, they won't occur any differently than usual. After much research and discussion, if it is believed that a Limited-Prep classification can be made within reasonable and achievable specs, that would allow the the car to race well within the performance realm of the class, then it should be done. The expectation of competitiveness won't be any different than when any other new classification is made. The idea is to get it as close to "right" the first time, given the tools and info we have. Of course no one wants an over-dog, but no one wants a complete dud either. It's also not something that doesn't need to be rushed for any reason.
 
"It's also not something that doesn't need to be rushed for any reason."

Rushed no, but snails pace isn't good for HP either. With BSpec growing like crazy there is obviously interest in the slower, less expensive classes. HP definitely needs to be positioned to be an alternative for those potential drivers...
 
Just to be clear, I'm currently getting flack for not getting 2.0L cars into HP fast enough.

On the prod forum.

I don't even know what planet I'm on anymore.

:lol:
 
kruck":zu414he2 said:
Just to be clear, I'm currently getting flack for not getting 2.0L cars into HP fast enough.

On the prod forum.

I don't even know what planet I'm on anymore.

:lol:
Click to expand...

Careful, Kevin. It might be a trap! :lol:
 
Part of the IT issue is that the Valve timing events often are not speced in any of the factory data books.
For IT cars to be listed IMHO the max valve lift should be on the spec line . Or maybe .425 lift for all IT level cars , run at IT weights minus 5% . ??
 
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