How many of the front end holes can I fill in?

IMHO, I would suggest removing the language specifying the screen material dimensions.
How do you define 1/4" mesh?

Looking at the Pegasus catalog, their screen is spec'd in terms of openings per inch.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produ ... oduct=3642

If you spec it based on screen hole size, I would suspect that the majority of the commercially available screen material would not be compliant since heavier gauge screen material would have smaller holes.

How is Tech going to enforce this? Are they going to have Go-No Go gauges for our screen material?

I say let em run any screen material they want...commerical racing screen mesh, door screen, chicken wire, etc.
We aren't dealing with 200mph NASCAR's here...
 
Bugeyes have grills so that would not apply. Why limit the screent to 1/4" if it's behind the grill a minimum of 2"? I already have smaller screen on the radiator, used what i had from headlight covers. They are not limited. Sholdn't matter if behind the grill 2" or more and block off plated are allowed. Maybe they should be allowed within 2" to allow eiser access to deeply shrouded radiators. Then they could be installed on the shoroud.
 
I can't stands it no more!!@! :twisted:

I want to see active grill shutter technology allowed so I can have whatever size screen I want but shutters that block off the openings on throttle and open on brake application.

Servo motors, solar panels, kite string whatever gets it done.
Severe case of mountains over molehills here. Simple rule "Flush with grill opening, not to expend beyond the body line when viewed from above."

PLEASE can we go racing yet??

Bryan Floyd
Mr Frustrated
 
So what's really wrong with:

9.1.5.E.6.h - Radiator Screens
9.1.5.E.6.h.1 - Screens, block-off plates or tape that serve only to protect or restrict air flow to the radiator(s) and/or oil cooler(s) are unrestricted, but must be located behind the stock grill or if there was no stock grill, a minimum of 2” behind the stock radiator/cooler opening. Screens may be added behind other body openings to protect other coolers, blockoff plates or tape may also be added behind these openings. It is the intention of this rule to allow protection of radiators and oil coolers. Main cooling air intakes may not be blocked at the outer surface of the car.

I'd have to guess that this is what whoever wrote the rule meant to write anyway.

If someone really wants to eliminate airflow through a front opening they can, using creative ductwork etc. All we are really trying to accomplish, IMO, is to allow the radiator/cooler protection (via the screens that everyone is already running) without turning prod cars into "blind cave fish" looking things with featureless bullet noses.

Al Seim
Race Technology USA
HP VW Scirocco
 
Improved, maybe? (see edit)

My old Datsun GP car had a cooler behind some "below the grill" openings. Before integrated bumpers, many cars had behind-the-bumper openings. Sciroccos have a particularly large and ugly set of these. It would hurt the sport 0 to block these (from the inside) or put mesh over them.

What we (I think) don't want is for main design elements such as headlights, grills or the Miata "mouth" to disappear.

Editorializing - it IS in fact easier to criticize rules than to write good ones!
 
Apparently I race in a class where there are a thousand choices on how to modify a hundred things but...... everybody has to put the spec screen in the spec place?

Rules lead to more rules which create a need for yet more rules and so on and so on..........................
 
I also agree, I like "no covering of the stock grille opening" plain and simple.

I agree with behind the grill opening a minimum of 2 inches. That would allow access from outside, in front of the car. I place mine deeper than that, so would be happy with a minimum of 2". I am in favor of nothing smaller than simple 1/4" hardware cloth in the leading position that is at least 2" behind the grill opening. With the option of putting a finer screen closer to the radiator/cooler.


How does tech measure the specified 2" from the outside, (or whatever dimension is settled upon)? From the leading exterior face? How do they allow for the radiused curvature entering around the perimeter of the grill opening (as part of their front spoiler, some cars have a nice fabricated radiused opening to the grill area)? With a simple string, or calibrated straight edge, across the opening, and measure to the screen, disregarding the radius? That way you don't need to allow for the curvature of the spoiler that may exist in front of, or below, the grill opening.
 
Rather than another machination of a possible rule, I'd rather see the intent of the rule - and more interestingly - what the rule intends for you not to do.


  • I think cars should be allowed put screens in front of radiators and oil coolers.
    I think drivers should be allowed to put tape (or whatever) in front of radiators and oil coolers to regulate heat for qualifying.
    I don't think any of that screen/tape/whatever should ever be allowed beyond the silhouette of the bumper.

Those three things said - I think the most contentious would be an aero advantage gained by #2.

I think writing the rule ignoring the aero advantage has been done successfully.

The easiest way to write the rule, likely, is to say the screen has to be attached directly to, and within a certain distance of, the radiator/cooler. As many have pointed out, that rule would likely present the most difficult situation for some cars to apply and remove tape.

Another way to write the rule is to say you can put screen over any radiator, cooler, or duct opening. Honesty, realizing this would give a new aero advantage to some cars, I'm personally fine with that.

The most difficult way seems to be what all these rewrites are about: you can have the screen, but you can only put it x inches behind something or-other.

(Technically speaking ,we don't need a rule allowing screens. We already allow radiator and oil cooler swaps. All I have to do is weld a screen on the front of either, and I'm still perfectly legal.)
 
I think the intent of the rule is to not interfere with the original look of the grill. We are driving Production cars and are trying to maintain much of the original appearance. We already do a lot of modification to the bodies, I think we could at least keep the appearance of the grill near original. That goes for the opening for the intake to the radiator also if no grill was originally used.

Of secondary concern is limiting Aero advantage. I know we don't go fast enough to get much benefit from this but some cars could benefit by it more than others. It is hard enough to attain/keep parity without introducing another variable.
 
Why not just say the screen has to be attached no closer to leading edge of the opening than the rear most part of the unmodified stock opening if opening has been modified no farther forward than 4 inches from the radiator.

James -R
 
One thing that comes up that I have to disagree with - we do not want to force the screen to be AT or ON the radiator or cooler, you'd get almost no protection from a rock that way. Visualize for simplicity a 1/2" cube moving corner first toward a cooler with a screen directly on the cooler. You'll see a significant protrusion of that corner through the screen mesh before the screen "catches" the cube - certainly enough to puncture some types of cooler.

However the wording is ultimately done, it should not prevent putting a screen directly on the back of an existing stock grille. That's the most effective and easiest place to put it, and where it already is on most cars including mine.

Al Seim
HP VW Scirocco
 
8 pages, still no real answer. I just want to be able to tape the front end holes, without covering the grill..
I want to cover some of the grill opening.,From the front , not mess around taping inside panels.
Please make your new rule so that racers can quickly tape, and/or screen , the front end, inside the body work"shadow".
In this case less rules, makes for less loopholes.

FWIW all of the TA cars and Cup cars that run from my shop, all tape as we please. We have never looked at the rules for front end tape. It has been a given that it is wide open.
If anyone protested any of these cars for tape/screens on the front end , they would have 5 flattires.
 
Protech Racing":sus0mkcb said:
8 pages, still no real answer. I just want to be able to tape the front end holes, without covering the grill..
I want to cover some of the grill opening.,From the front , not mess around taping inside panels.
Please make your new rule so that racers can quickly tape, and/or screen , the front end, inside the body work"shadow".
In this case less rules, makes for less loopholes.

FWIW all of the TA cars and Cup cars that run from my shop, all tape as we please. We have never looked at the rules for front end tape. It has been a given that it is wide open.
If anyone protested any of these cars for tape/screens on the front end , they would have 5 flattires.
Click to expand...

Mike brings up a valid point. Perhaps we should all just not worry about taping up. If someone can make their car last temp wise with no air coming in, more power to ya.

One thing I sense in reading a lot of these posts is that some folks want the screen rule written in such a fashion to get back to more stock looking front ends. Comments like "blind cave fish" and "Mack Trucks" and "don't want design elements such as the Miata 'mouth' to disappear" support this. That has nothing to do with screens. A screen rule doesn't make the cars look like this. It's the air dam/valence rule and it's been around for decades. If you don't like that rule, then suggest it be changed.

I agree with Curtis. Let's keep this simple. Besides, that's the easiest way to police. That way people can do what they feel is necessary to control temps. If they are making their front-end slipperier by adding tape, so be it. It's equal for everyone and you're not getting into unintended consequences for 1 or 2 cars because 2" doesn't work for them b/c of that car's design. Every car is shaped differently. Let's just run screens to protect our stuff. If someone wants to tape, so be it. Me? I run a thermostat. I'm too dumb to know how much tape per 10 degrees of ambient or whatever is necessary. Might I consider taping the whole thing up for 1 lap at Runoffs in qualifying? I might think about it but that isn't going to win the Runoffs and frankly it's goofy ideas like that that more often than not end up losing it for you.

My new bumper is on the car (I wanted to get rid of 'lumpy' anyway) and my new, modified air dam is going on next to meet the way the rule is written, so my car will be changed anyway since I'm racing in 3 weeks. I just don't like the arbitrary 2". Remember when it was proposed to go from 50% on the main hoop to a number of inches (was it 9"?). That was an arbitrary number that made sense to some but wasn't practical. I wonder if this is the same scenario?
 
Why not just say screens of any size and tape cannot modify the apperance of any stock element; i.e. grill, air inlet, etc. Then clear tape could be used to control temperature without changing apperance. Doesn't control the aero issue but i think Eric is on track on that. There are many other issues of aero which are not the same on all cars
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top