Wasting my breadth chapter 943

Chris Crisenbery":2d3rshch said:
I had the track record at RA in H with my 1300 LP Spitfire which I lowered from 2:48 to 2:46. The 2:48 was the record for a number of years. The front runners are now turning 2:39-2:42......hmmmm all I got was a 50# weight reduction. You can gage my enthusiasm by the fact that after I hit my 25 year membership I have let my membership expire and I haven't competed at RA at the Runoffs.....great job SCCA!

I'm with you Chris. This is my 20th anniversary with the SCCA and will be my last. Racecar sold. All racing parts/tools sold. I'm out.

But if GP was still around, I guarantee I'd still be doing 6-8 nationals a year + Runoffs. Oh well...

MC
 
OK, folks. If I don't run it in Production, what in the Hell am I going to do with a full up National H car in the near future other than make a wine rack out of it? If I take all the mechanicals out of it and put them in a Vintage chassis I sort of waste the $250,000 that originally went into it in the 90s. Hell of a wine rack!

Bob
 
So just in this small thread of 22 posts I count 10 past national drivers who no longer race with SCCA or have greatly reduced their participation. All of these drivers used to run at least 6 national events and do the Runoffs. Based on this years numbers that would be about a 20% increase in production entries. And I could add at least 10 more who I see at the vintage events I attend. I wonder if the marketing company the club hired to find out why SCCA is losing racers knows about this web site?
 
Let me just clear up my dad's participation record for everyone.

He ran the MGA for 20 years, had a great time, won some championships. The time came where he didn't want to spend the money anymore to keep building the high stress full prep motors and decided it was time to do something else. It's not that he felt he was uncompetitive, it was time to not work so hard at his racing. We completely restored the MGA back to more vintage specs and to more of a show car and now he takes other customers and his MGA to the big vintage events. You should see the thing, it's gorgeous! He's going to run 2 vintage events this year.

He loves the Miata and will be running two complete seasons plus two runoffs on one engine that hasn't been out of the car. This is why he's running this car. He still wants the real competition of SCCA but doesn't want the work of the older car anymore. The MGA is not an SCCA prepped car anymore, it's a vintage car. He runs GTL in SCCA in a Miata and loves it. Call him if you don't believe me.
 
Bob:

IMHO, a good 1275 HP Spridget can win at maybe 90% of the SCCA races in the country, including the Runoffs if that event is moved from RA to a more "average" track.

On a tangent, I totally disagree that old and new can't be mixed and made competitive. "It's all physics"

There are some big problems, though, trying to equalize cars of very different weight and aero characteristics across different sorts of race tracks. But it is not an old vs new thing.

Al Seim
Race Technology USA
HP VW Scirocco 1.6
 
racingspridget":1crehv41 said:
So just in this small thread of 22 posts I count 10 past national drivers who no longer race with SCCA or have greatly reduced their participation. All of these drivers used to run at least 6 national events and do the Runoffs. Based on this years numbers that would be about a 20% increase in production entries. And I could add at least 10 more who I see at the vintage events I attend. I wonder if the marketing company the club hired to find out why SCCA is losing racers knows about this web site?


Gary, see ya at the Gold Cup :mrgreen:
 
I'm with AL! :applause: RA is the problem.

After all the work it has taken to get the cars fairly equalized at most tracks, how does anyone think we could be successful in making a Runoffs-specific spec in a short period of time with so few chances to observe the results (RA races only)? It's a good idea in theory but execution would be very difficult. There would be pages and pages of ranting about how we screwed up the Runoffs spec. There would be complaints about how it's unfair to the cars with different specs than their normal specs because they would have less track time throughout the year to tune the car. It's a can o' worms.

Get the Runoffs away from RA and back to a normal track...not the outlier that is RA.

Tom
 
racingspridget wrote:

"- - - - I wonder if the marketing company the club hired to find out why SCCA is losing racers knows about this web site?"

Consultants are usually hired to support/confirm a company's position. Few are hired with expectations for objective evaluation/change.

This ain't rocket science. Companies loose market share for one (or more) of 3 reasons:

Their products/services have poor quality
Their products/services offer less value than a competitor (overpriced)
Their products/services are no longer wanted/needed by the consumer

We could probably all think of examples in our personal lives where we stopped/changed our buying habits for each of the above reasons.

I have received many "Customer Satisfaction" surveys while I was still a customer, but I have never received a "Customer Dissatisfaction" survey after I ceased being a customer.

SCCA policy/officials used to encourage/facilitate a member's racing; now it seems policy/officials are obligated to discourage/inhibit participation.

Just my opinion.

RJS

RJS
 
Tom Feller said "Get the Runoffs away from RA and back to a normal track...not the outlier that is RA." Weather it is "Right ON", BINGO!!! or DUUHH!! The issue is the RunOffs current location.

I always believed if one is going to complain......one should also offer a remedy. During the first three year contract with RA it became obvious of the disparity issue. Prior to moving to RA, the best Midgets, Miata's, Honda's/Acura's etc would run nose to tail. At RA, a top notch LEGAL Midget can not come within 2 seconds of a 2.32. Letters were written to SCCA about this issue and I hoped that SCCA would recognise and fix the problem by moving to a more balanced track. But the contract was renewed and the falloff in FP Midget participation really began.

I really do not think that SCCA wants to get rid of ANY marque. Is the car count so high that they can toss out or, through the rules process, intentionally make a car unable to compete? To remain viable, SCCA needs CARS. Yes we need to attract newer cars but I suggest having 700-800 cars of various makes and model years is far better than 500-600 cars of newer ones.

OK, how about this to think about. If RA is in SCCA's extended future and you do not like the RunOffs or RA Spec idea what about this. As a racer, NO ONE WANTS TO GO SLOWER. So if the FP Miatas, Honda's and Acura's are so much faster than the previously classed FP cars, what do you have to GIVE those faster ones to go even FASTER and move them into EP. Same size cars, same weight, safer for the smaller cars. Geez, what a thought. I can here it now, OMG, what would the car count be in FP with these cars gone? HMMMM wonder where all the old GP cars went?? There are close to 200 replies dealing with ex-GP cars. Can they get a spec that would make them viable in FP? Not a chump spec but one with a real viable chance? One that would heal their disappointment and allow them to race what they have with (hopefully) not to large of a re-investment. I do not know if this really is a viable option but it may be worth consideration.

In a prior post on this current subject the following was said. I have held off on a responce in the hopes someone else might reply but since I am on a roll, here goes. The following was posted on 14 Aug:

"In a second private message this official states that the SCCA's current low entries is because SCCA is not attracting more new drivers. New drivers can now choose from a number of sanctioning bodies. He goes on to say that owners of old cars should do has Kent has done and build new modern cars. Our old cars belong in vintage racing. SCCA's woes are not caused by the BOD, CRB, or staff. We, the owners of old cars are to blame.... We are supposed to build new cars if we want to be competitive."

IF the above was verbatim, "sorry in advance for the profanity" but WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT. So the owners of cars that finished 2nd in both FP and HP in the 2007 RunOffs at HPT are to blame for the current SCCA woes! We are letting SCCA down by not building new cars? Whoever uttered those words to us deserves a reply from us.........F@#% YOU TOO. I am proud to be friends of the Prather family. Kent and Jesse deserve all they have attained. While the Prather's run a racing business, the majority of folks that race in SCCA do not. It is not their lively hood and building new cars every three or four years is not viable for most.
 
Bill,
I suggested to this official that he should discontinue the private messages and make his comments public but he refused. Saying that his steward peers frown on making public comments. Since he said this I do not feel I can share his e-mails directly. However, what he told me in the private message is what I said above. And I feel the same way you do about it. Here is a direct quote from one of the private messages. The entire paragraph just so I can't be accused of taking it out of context.
"The executive summary of my comments is that the Prod community made it's own bed and now doesn't want to lie in it. Meanwhile, SCCA has finally begun to deal with the changing reality of the sport. Morris Garages is out of business. Triumph is out of business. Their successor companies are also long gone no one is making the cars they did anymore. The problem isn't SCCA. The problem is people like you who continue to want to live in the past and refuse to come to terms with a changing world."
 
So this arrogant SOB says that the Prod Community is to blame for the state of SCCA racing. Some reasons that back up his position are.......(1) Prod wanted to move the RunOffs to RA so they can be eliminated. (2) Not supporting SCCA by refusing to spend money on new cars. (3) Wanting to race in this wonderful bright future SCCA has created with old non-competitive cars.

This is wonderful. I am glad the Production community was set straight by this almighty quote "OFFICIAL". Anybody reading the comments from him regarding us knows now for sure why SCCA is loosing car counts. Thank you Mr Official for setting us straight. We were taking up room on the grid and thereby excluding the onrush of these new cars. Geez....for me and my fellow racers, our greatest appologies.

This Official sounds like one I had to deal with at the 2003 RunOffs. He told me, word for word, that my roll bar was unacceptable because "It did not look like the picture of the suggested one in the GCR",

Brilliant. By the way, I certainly DO NOT want to know the name of your contact Official. I would hate to cause any harm to his/her position because rules/thoughts/positions/decrees like their's have brought us so far. I would hate to hinder their good work.
 
racingspridget":2x5v0bkd said:
The problem is people like you who continue to want to live in the past and refuse to come to terms with a changing world."

Who wants to tell the FV guys that they are living in the past and aren't welcome in SCCA anymore? Hands? Anybody?
 
Al... Agree with you on all three counts. After we use up our brand new 948 in our Stamps car we've got a 1275 that goes in our stock style suspension car. Not giving up yet... don't need a wine rack right now anyway. Still don't have a future for a full prep Bugeye other than turning it into an autocross car... or a wine rack. Any ideas?

Bob
 
Mazda Jon":3u4uzqv1 said:
Bad example, FV is a spec class and doesn't need competition adjustments.

The comment was made in reference to old cars. "they don't make Triumphs" etc etc.
It is spot on, the mentality has been for a long time, who cares about the old cars, get rid of them. If they want to get rid of or don't care about old cars. FV would be the first to go. Selectively weeding out old cars.....is BS.
 
KDENNIS":1hmta55t said:
Mazda Jon":1hmta55t said:
Bad example, FV is a spec class and doesn't need competition adjustments.

The comment was made in reference to old cars. "they don't make Triumphs" etc etc.
It is spot on, the mentality has been for a long time, who cares about the old cars, get rid of them. If they want to get rid of or don't care about old cars. FV would be the first to go. Selectively weeding out old cars.....is BS.

Ok, I get it, we're on the same page.
 
Bob Hess":kvqbiqul said:
Al... Agree with you on all three counts. After we use up our brand new 948 in our Stamps car we've got a 1275 that goes in our stock style suspension car. Not giving up yet... don't need a wine rack right now anyway. Still don't have a future for a full prep Bugeye other than turning it into an autocross car... or a wine rack. Any ideas?
Bob

Don't forget the hybrid spec - 1275 in full prep chassis.

Al
 
To play devil's advocate - what does it really matter what a particular steward thinks about old Prod cars? Advisory Committee > CRB > BOD are the only ones with any say in the matter....

Not that I agree with him - I really like the mix of old and new - but what does his opinion matter?
 
Oh I am sure that the small formulae get lumped in there too. Those damm flat 4 people are not making the mad rush to get FSTs and the Cortina nuts are just holding back the tidal wave of H-word fans in FF and F500... aren't 2 strokes banned all over the world or something. :ask:
 
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