Jerry Lee Oleson
Well-known member
I thought I saw an update from Rick. Any idea where it went?
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Rick Haynes
- Thread starter Jerry Lee Oleson
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Peter Olivola
Well-known member
He was trying to delete it. Looks like he succeeded.
craig chima
Well-known member
No, Rick was not trying to delete it. Why would he? It was actually removed (censored) by the administrator/moderator of this forum and it is unclear at this point if the removal of the post was solely his (moderator/administrator) decision or if that directive came from higher powers within the SCCA.
Regardless of "who's" decision it was to have Rick's post deleted it is my opinion that censorship in this country is a BAD idea. I know at one point some of his posts were deleted because of "violations" of SCCA's social media policy but there was nothing in his recent (deleted) post that could be construed as derogatory/inflammatory. It was merely an update of where things stood with regard to his lawsuit with SCCA.
And for those who don't know, he has been trying for years to discern "where" the money came from that funded the massive losses incurred by SCCA Pro Racing but has been repeatedly shut down by Club Administrators and also the BOD, ultimately leading to him filing a lawsuit in order to get financial records released and it is not a stretch to say that the Club is absolutely terrified of this happening (they have hired a big time law firm to hopefully prevent this from happening).
It is my opinion that there are many members who would be very interested in knowing more about Club financials and why costs have risen so dramatically in recent years but are afraid to speak publicly about it for fear of repercussions from the Club. Rick is not one of those people.
Lastly, I for one don't think that I have said anything negative or inflammatory in this reply but it will be interesting to see if this topic is also deleted...
Regardless of "who's" decision it was to have Rick's post deleted it is my opinion that censorship in this country is a BAD idea. I know at one point some of his posts were deleted because of "violations" of SCCA's social media policy but there was nothing in his recent (deleted) post that could be construed as derogatory/inflammatory. It was merely an update of where things stood with regard to his lawsuit with SCCA.
And for those who don't know, he has been trying for years to discern "where" the money came from that funded the massive losses incurred by SCCA Pro Racing but has been repeatedly shut down by Club Administrators and also the BOD, ultimately leading to him filing a lawsuit in order to get financial records released and it is not a stretch to say that the Club is absolutely terrified of this happening (they have hired a big time law firm to hopefully prevent this from happening).
It is my opinion that there are many members who would be very interested in knowing more about Club financials and why costs have risen so dramatically in recent years but are afraid to speak publicly about it for fear of repercussions from the Club. Rick is not one of those people.
Lastly, I for one don't think that I have said anything negative or inflammatory in this reply but it will be interesting to see if this topic is also deleted...
Chris Schaafsma
Well-known member
Craig - free speech is a right we have that the government can't take from us, but that literally has nothing to do with everything else that you just typed.
This board is not a governmental body, but a purely private affair with user rules that we agree to when we sign up, and a (likely small) number of moderators that manage the board to thwart spammers, maintain data security, and enforce the rules we agreed to.
Now I have no idea about what might have happened with the post in question, and I didn't get a chance to see it myself, but given behavior observed to date I'd would imagine we could just as easily speculate that Rick made some statement(s) that were out of bounds in the thread (and if that were the case I'd wager more likely than not it would not necessarily be an intentional act, but a result of constantly taking a one sided view and assuming any other perspective to be of malicious intent directed against his windmill/goal), or in direct messages with a moderator, as we could imagine that SCCA black helicopters surreptitiously shut it down for "political" reasons.
Since we have no reason to believe either theory, I'll go ahead and not jump to conclusions unless we learn some information to go from.
This board is not a governmental body, but a purely private affair with user rules that we agree to when we sign up, and a (likely small) number of moderators that manage the board to thwart spammers, maintain data security, and enforce the rules we agreed to.
Now I have no idea about what might have happened with the post in question, and I didn't get a chance to see it myself, but given behavior observed to date I'd would imagine we could just as easily speculate that Rick made some statement(s) that were out of bounds in the thread (and if that were the case I'd wager more likely than not it would not necessarily be an intentional act, but a result of constantly taking a one sided view and assuming any other perspective to be of malicious intent directed against his windmill/goal), or in direct messages with a moderator, as we could imagine that SCCA black helicopters surreptitiously shut it down for "political" reasons.
Since we have no reason to believe either theory, I'll go ahead and not jump to conclusions unless we learn some information to go from.
craig chima
Well-known member
Chris,
"But given behavior observed to date I'd would imagine we could just as easily speculate that Rick made some statement(s) that were out of bounds in the thread"
Who's speculating now? You indicated that you didn't see or read his post and I can assure you that there was nothing malicious said, no any aspersions cast. It was merely an update regarding his legal matter with SCCA.
Personally I think that members of a CLUB have a right to know where their money is going and that's all he is looking to find out. And I know for a fact that the post was deleted by the moderator. The point I raised earlier was whether there was a directive to delete it by the Powers that Be within SCCA.
It's my guess that a majority of people who come to this forum weren't around back in the early 90's when there were significant discussions within the board to eliminate Production Car Racing and policies were enacted to facilitate that demise (yes, there is written documentation between BOD members to substantiate this fact). This website started out at the "H Production Website" in order to combat those actions and facilitate the growth of both HP and Production Car racing in general. Believe me, censorship sucks and I've seen the Club pull way too much shady crap over the last 40 years and am fairly certain that they were behind the censored post and I'm sure I can find a copy of the text and send to you in a PM if you are that interested.
It just amazes me that more people are not more interested in what goes on behind the scenes in THEIR club. They pay their dues and ever-increasing entry fees to go racing and keep quiet about it all. Personally, I am not one of those people and would like to know if MY money (and yours) was being used to subsidize Pro Racing and am entitled to my opinion in that regard.
"But given behavior observed to date I'd would imagine we could just as easily speculate that Rick made some statement(s) that were out of bounds in the thread"
Who's speculating now? You indicated that you didn't see or read his post and I can assure you that there was nothing malicious said, no any aspersions cast. It was merely an update regarding his legal matter with SCCA.
Personally I think that members of a CLUB have a right to know where their money is going and that's all he is looking to find out. And I know for a fact that the post was deleted by the moderator. The point I raised earlier was whether there was a directive to delete it by the Powers that Be within SCCA.
It's my guess that a majority of people who come to this forum weren't around back in the early 90's when there were significant discussions within the board to eliminate Production Car Racing and policies were enacted to facilitate that demise (yes, there is written documentation between BOD members to substantiate this fact). This website started out at the "H Production Website" in order to combat those actions and facilitate the growth of both HP and Production Car racing in general. Believe me, censorship sucks and I've seen the Club pull way too much shady crap over the last 40 years and am fairly certain that they were behind the censored post and I'm sure I can find a copy of the text and send to you in a PM if you are that interested.
It just amazes me that more people are not more interested in what goes on behind the scenes in THEIR club. They pay their dues and ever-increasing entry fees to go racing and keep quiet about it all. Personally, I am not one of those people and would like to know if MY money (and yours) was being used to subsidize Pro Racing and am entitled to my opinion in that regard.
Protech Racing
Well-known member
Censorship sux. Transparency would be very good for the club. There seems to be lots of funky book keeping within SCCA , It would be nice to know what really goes. on.
Rick is very on point and persistent. Not very politically correct maybe .
Rick is very on point and persistent. Not very politically correct maybe .
Any discussion of any pending lawsuit will be deleted. Note the purpose of this sub-forum:
"Discussion directly related to production car racing"
If anyone wants to host an open "production racing topic" board that's open to any topics, feel free to make me a substantial purchase offer for this domain.
GA
"Discussion directly related to production car racing"
If anyone wants to host an open "production racing topic" board that's open to any topics, feel free to make me a substantial purchase offer for this domain.
GA
Chris Schaafsma
Well-known member
craig chima said:Chris,
Who's speculating now?
Which was of course my entire point. Thanks for reinforcing it.
Speculating that it was nefariously removed makes as much sense as speculating it was removed because someone didn’t like the poster.
Neither one is productive.
craig chima
Well-known member
Chris,
Whether he realized it or not, I think that Greg answered my question loud and clear. The kind of reply you'd expect from a petulant child.... this is my sandbox and if you don't like it go play somewhere else.....
Like Mike, I am one of those people who would like to know what the Club has been doing with my (and everyone else here's) money and if that is not a topic that directly relates to Production car racing I don't know what is. And like Mike said, Rick certainly has his faults and can rub people the wrong way but there was nothing in his original post that was offensive or malicious and that's what I have a big problem with. As for the lawsuit itself, I was originally of the mindset of "Why is he doing this...what is there to gain from it all....plus it is obviously and needlessly costing the Club money... But my opinion has changed in recent months given the lengths (and expense) the Club has gone to in order to shut him down. There is something very strange that has been going on and I, for one hope that he gets to the bottom of it.
As Rick suggested in his original post, he has taken this on by himself with considerable out-of-pocket expense involved. Curious Greg if you would delete a generic "Rick Haynes Go Fund Me" donation topic to help with his expenses?
Whether he realized it or not, I think that Greg answered my question loud and clear. The kind of reply you'd expect from a petulant child.... this is my sandbox and if you don't like it go play somewhere else.....
Like Mike, I am one of those people who would like to know what the Club has been doing with my (and everyone else here's) money and if that is not a topic that directly relates to Production car racing I don't know what is. And like Mike said, Rick certainly has his faults and can rub people the wrong way but there was nothing in his original post that was offensive or malicious and that's what I have a big problem with. As for the lawsuit itself, I was originally of the mindset of "Why is he doing this...what is there to gain from it all....plus it is obviously and needlessly costing the Club money... But my opinion has changed in recent months given the lengths (and expense) the Club has gone to in order to shut him down. There is something very strange that has been going on and I, for one hope that he gets to the bottom of it.
As Rick suggested in his original post, he has taken this on by himself with considerable out-of-pocket expense involved. Curious Greg if you would delete a generic "Rick Haynes Go Fund Me" donation topic to help with his expenses?
Craig, given that your commentary basically plagiarizes a rude, abusive, and insulting Rick Haynes' PM to me, it's pretty clear to this board who the petulant children are (and have been). We will not tolerate personal abuse against members of this community.
I did not spend time and money to revive this forum so you and Rick can use it to celebrate Festivus.
If you want to make a difference then take this conversation some place much more public. But not here.
Greg
I did not spend time and money to revive this forum so you and Rick can use it to celebrate Festivus.
If you want to make a difference then take this conversation some place much more public. But not here.
Greg
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