Pueblo Invitational June 16-17
- Thread starter EPrill
- Start date
Bill,
This is not a comment on the division, region, or event operations in any way.
However, I think that this establishes that the "Majors Invitational" format IS NOT a significant draw for racers.
This program (which diminishes the existing National Racing program) has been shoved down the throats of the membership under the assumption that there would be a significant increase in attendance of the top ten classes if they were given this "Majors" format.
IMHO, this event has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that is not the case.
I expect that those with skin the Majors game will provide all manor of excuses, "this is a pilot", diversions, and distractions. But numbers don't lie.
-Kyle
This is not a comment on the division, region, or event operations in any way.
However, I think that this establishes that the "Majors Invitational" format IS NOT a significant draw for racers.
This program (which diminishes the existing National Racing program) has been shoved down the throats of the membership under the assumption that there would be a significant increase in attendance of the top ten classes if they were given this "Majors" format.
IMHO, this event has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that is not the case.
I expect that those with skin the Majors game will provide all manor of excuses, "this is a pilot", diversions, and distractions. But numbers don't lie.
-Kyle
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
disquek":daysfckp said:
Anyone know what past (Natl) car counts were at Pueblo?
edit: found results from what looks to be a 2011 Double Regional + Time Trial, and the car count was under 40, so this appears to have actually driven some interest (particularly when you consider the limited number of classes invited).
I read somewhere that the weather was bad at least one day.
blamkin86
Well-known member
Jason I'd say we're typically in the 80ish range - around 100 for the super tours.
So, I do think 40 was low. Two of us had excused absences
To your point - Look through the Prod field and see how many were from out of state - the question is, did they make up for the "uninvited" classes or not.
So, I do think 40 was low. Two of us had excused absences
To your point - Look through the Prod field and see how many were from out of state - the question is, did they make up for the "uninvited" classes or not.
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
blamkin86":3g1m72b6 said:Jason I'd say we're typically in the 80ish range - around 100 for the super tours.
So, I do think 40 was low. Two of us had excused absences
To your point - Look through the Prod field and see how many were from out of state - the question is, did they make up for the "uninvited" classes or not.
The only results I saw for a Pueblo event prior to this showed less than 40 cars, are you saying you get 80+ there?
blamkin86
Well-known member
For nationals, yes. PPIR two weeks ago, we had 60 sign up... and there's some consternation locally about the chosen track layout.
The HPR Super Tour in two weeks already has 40 signed up.
I don't know how to explain the low count at PPIR - other than, some classes were not invited. Sorry I wish it weren't true. Pueblo is my favorite track around here, and I would have been there if I could have been.
The regionals, esp those after the runoffs, don't get many folks. I think our october enduro had 8 cars total.
The HPR Super Tour in two weeks already has 40 signed up.
I don't know how to explain the low count at PPIR - other than, some classes were not invited. Sorry I wish it weren't true. Pueblo is my favorite track around here, and I would have been there if I could have been.
The regionals, esp those after the runoffs, don't get many folks. I think our october enduro had 8 cars total.
Jerry Oleson
Well-known member
Storm came through for the "prod" race group 3, track was wet/dring for FF/FM group 4, Sunday was dry all day. My ring gear came off the flywheel during Saturdays race did not want to chance anything bad happening inside the bell housing on Sunday so came back to Denver and swaped for Mike Davies SRF, first time ever in arace with one and had a great time. Thanks Mike D!
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
blamkin86":cup82lnc said:
I was just looking at Pueblo car counts, not the other tracks.
blamkin86
Well-known member
The short story is, the track surface at Pueblo starting getting bad, but the city (who owns the track) wasn't willing to pony up for repairs. About that time, HPR came online, and people around here like that track - so events started migrating there. At some point, the clubs here just stopped scheduling Pueblo altogether. The last time I was there was '08.
This past winter, Pueblo got approval for funds and was repaved and slightly reconfigured.
So, looking at past Pueblo counts, you have to go way back to like '07 and earlier.
This past winter, Pueblo got approval for funds and was repaved and slightly reconfigured.
So, looking at past Pueblo counts, you have to go way back to like '07 and earlier.
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
blamkin86":3kcyoly8 said:
Gotcha. Hopefully with the upgrades car counts will start moving back in a positive direction for them.
As to Colorado weather it can change anytime and does. I doubt anyone could predict with enough accuracy to effect registration.
I've been to 2 of the first 3 Majors and will be at HPR and maybe Topeka, not because it is the Majors but it happens to fit my schedule.
I'm holding out on thoughts to see if they get better but right now still don't understand the concept. It doesn't seem to be enought ("different/better/more exciting" or what ever word you chose) to draw significantly higher numbers. Not sure the invitaionals are even drawing the same.
"Where's the beef?" I thought there were going to be special contingencies and other "rewards" to be announced as the year went along to draw entries.
I've been to 2 of the first 3 Majors and will be at HPR and maybe Topeka, not because it is the Majors but it happens to fit my schedule.
I'm holding out on thoughts to see if they get better but right now still don't understand the concept. It doesn't seem to be enought ("different/better/more exciting" or what ever word you chose) to draw significantly higher numbers. Not sure the invitaionals are even drawing the same.
"Where's the beef?" I thought there were going to be special contingencies and other "rewards" to be announced as the year went along to draw entries.
As to Colorado weather it can and will change suddenly and often so I doubt anyone could predict it with enough accuracy to effect entries.
I have been to 2 of the previous 3 Majors and will be at HPR and maybe Topeka, not because of the Majors but because it fit my schedule. I'm holding off on comments to see if it gets better as the 2 I've been to have not been "special". Am beginning to wonder "Where's the beef?" I thought there were to be perks add as the program developed but so far all I've seen is time in impound I could have been using to drive home and bubbly provided by BFG. The qualifing race format does seem interesting.
I have been to 2 of the previous 3 Majors and will be at HPR and maybe Topeka, not because of the Majors but because it fit my schedule. I'm holding off on comments to see if it gets better as the 2 I've been to have not been "special". Am beginning to wonder "Where's the beef?" I thought there were to be perks add as the program developed but so far all I've seen is time in impound I could have been using to drive home and bubbly provided by BFG. The qualifing race format does seem interesting.
My feedback on Pueblo.
I am enjoying the opportunity to race on new tracks. I never got the chance to race outside of the MidWest division when I was there other than Road America.
Leading up to this past weekend's race, I tried to study and watch as many videos as I could because I was not able to attend the test day nor do I have DA. Saturday morning was my first time to see the track after walking it with my mentor on Friday night. The videos seemed to make the track look fairly easy. However, I found out real quickly the videos were deceiving. I would reference this track like playing Pool by strategically leaving the Q ball in a position for your next shot. With Pueblo, it was all about corner entry and exit to set you up for the next corner. Every corner is different with it's unique challenging characteristics.
Pueblo is a very fun and challenging track. It tests drivability, horse power and car set up with lots of throttle and brake modulation. It definitely has multiple risk reward areas. The combination of coming down the hill to turn 5 through turn 6 (a and b?) and then to an extremely hard braking area into 7 is an absolute hoot to drive. There were several corners that I never got down like coming through and out of 7 along with turns 9 and 10. Turn 8 is also a blast because of the speed carrying through there as another risk reward area. The track surface is extremely smooth and easy on tires. Great track lay out.
My personal opinion of what makes a great road course are the hard right left or left right combinations. That's why we should vote to have the extra section added to the Runoffs track before the kink, at least for the last year there to change it up a bit.
I am enjoying the opportunity to race on new tracks. I never got the chance to race outside of the MidWest division when I was there other than Road America.
Leading up to this past weekend's race, I tried to study and watch as many videos as I could because I was not able to attend the test day nor do I have DA. Saturday morning was my first time to see the track after walking it with my mentor on Friday night.
The videos seemed to make the track look fairly easy. However, I found out real quickly the videos were deceiving. I would reference this track like playing Pool by strategically leaving the Q ball in a position for your next shot. With Pueblo, it was all about corner entry and exit to set you up for the next corner. Every corner is different with it's unique challenging characteristics. Pueblo is a very fun and challenging track. It tests drivability, horse power and car set up with lots of throttle and brake modulation. It definitely has multiple risk reward areas. The combination of coming down the hill to turn 5 through turn 6 (a and b?) and then to an extremely hard braking area into 7 is an absolute hoot to drive. There were several corners that I never got down like coming through and out of 7 along with turns 9 and 10. Turn 8 is also a blast because of the speed carrying through there as another risk reward area. The track surface is extremely smooth and easy on tires. Great track lay out.
My personal opinion of what makes a great road course are the hard right left or left right combinations. That's why we should vote to have the extra section added to the Runoffs track before the kink, at least for the last year there to change it up a bit.
Mazda Jon
Well-known member
When I moved to Colorado from New England it was a shock. In Solo we had more cars in a run group in New England then they had here at an event. It's the same thing at a Club race. You can't compare us to the right or left coast regions.
At the Double National at PPIR Memorial Day weekend we had 52 National cars on Saturday and 49 on Sunday.
The Invitational had 48 on Saturday and 44 on Sunday. Some of the top local EP and FP cars didn't make it because of the "there's more to life than racing" events that came up.
Denver is over 500 miles away from the closest road racing group in Topeka. They are coming for the Super Tour, but didn't want to make the trip for the invitational.
For this region thats not to bad considering there were only 10 classes. We could run a double National with 2 run groups, open wheel and closed wheel if we didn't need 5-6 run groups.
Having the Super Tour at HPR in 2 weeks (I think) hurts more than helps. People don't like leaving there stuff somewhere miles away (100's) from the airport and it's a pain. Althought the guys at PPIR where allowing rig parking for the time inbetween with or without power. :applause:
We are hoping for a big event for the Super Tour with 100-120 cars, that would be huge, for us.
At the Double National at PPIR Memorial Day weekend we had 52 National cars on Saturday and 49 on Sunday.
The Invitational had 48 on Saturday and 44 on Sunday. Some of the top local EP and FP cars didn't make it because of the "there's more to life than racing" events that came up.
Denver is over 500 miles away from the closest road racing group in Topeka. They are coming for the Super Tour, but didn't want to make the trip for the invitational.
For this region thats not to bad considering there were only 10 classes. We could run a double National with 2 run groups, open wheel and closed wheel if we didn't need 5-6 run groups.
Having the Super Tour at HPR in 2 weeks (I think) hurts more than helps. People don't like leaving there stuff somewhere miles away (100's) from the airport and it's a pain. Althought the guys at PPIR where allowing rig parking for the time inbetween with or without power. :applause:
We are hoping for a big event for the Super Tour with 100-120 cars, that would be huge, for us.
EPrill
Well-known member
With the strange weather Saturday, we were looking forward to less drama on Sunday. But the race got weird for another reason.
I had the inside line going into one and was able to take the lead for the first couple laps with Rick right behind. We caught Halbrook (who had a tire come apart) on like lap 3, and I made a big mistake, locking into him and following him right off course in Turn 7, allowing Rick an easy path through to the lead.
Took a couple of laps to get back to Rick's bumper and the temps were through the roof as it was 100 degrees. I was able to get a good run out of Turn 10 and draft into the lead going into Turn 1 to retake the lead. From there, the gap opened to about 5 seconds and I could see the EP leaders (Longwell and Kosdrosky) up ahead. Figured I might get up to them by the end of the race at the rate things were going.
Then there was a huge cloud of dust in Turn 9 and both of them were off, coming back on as I came by. During the next lap, the double yellows came out. Never really saw why, might have been because the one corner worker at 9 probably couldnt be certain if all cars involved got away. Thats my guess at least. So there went my lead and it was now me, Rick and Longwell.
With 2 to go, I went by the start stand and the yellows were there. I verified this in my in-car. In the far periphery of my camera lens, you can see the yellows come down as I'm driving past. My field of vision was far ahead at this point. Regardless, there was no green. So, Rick and I cruised to Turn 1, through 2 and 3 and suddenly Longwell comes flying past going into Turn 4. Crap! There's no yellow there! So both Rick and I get on it as well. Longwell's car is hurt and he's holding us up in 7, 8 and 9. Rick gets alongside on the left going into 9 and then pulls and over-under going to 10. He definitely had the good position there, but had he carried speed through and driven over the slick part he may have taken us both out. Appreciate him recognizing that. I got by Longwell and 2 and Rick followed. We finished in that order, just as we were under caution. Spoke to the CS after the race and asked what the deal was. Sounds like a delay in communication to go green and it was too late to get it out for us leaders. Happens.
Here's a video from Saturday's qualifying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSWVhjjG1ZE
Most classes were slower than the old track records, except for FP and STU. Turn 10 is definitely slower, but Turn 9 may be a bit faster and the overall grip is better. This lap is about a second and a half under the old record. Amazing what good grip will do for you!
I had the inside line going into one and was able to take the lead for the first couple laps with Rick right behind. We caught Halbrook (who had a tire come apart) on like lap 3, and I made a big mistake, locking into him and following him right off course in Turn 7, allowing Rick an easy path through to the lead.
Took a couple of laps to get back to Rick's bumper and the temps were through the roof as it was 100 degrees. I was able to get a good run out of Turn 10 and draft into the lead going into Turn 1 to retake the lead. From there, the gap opened to about 5 seconds and I could see the EP leaders (Longwell and Kosdrosky) up ahead. Figured I might get up to them by the end of the race at the rate things were going.
Then there was a huge cloud of dust in Turn 9 and both of them were off, coming back on as I came by. During the next lap, the double yellows came out. Never really saw why, might have been because the one corner worker at 9 probably couldnt be certain if all cars involved got away. Thats my guess at least. So there went my lead and it was now me, Rick and Longwell.
With 2 to go, I went by the start stand and the yellows were there. I verified this in my in-car. In the far periphery of my camera lens, you can see the yellows come down as I'm driving past. My field of vision was far ahead at this point. Regardless, there was no green. So, Rick and I cruised to Turn 1, through 2 and 3 and suddenly Longwell comes flying past going into Turn 4. Crap! There's no yellow there! So both Rick and I get on it as well. Longwell's car is hurt and he's holding us up in 7, 8 and 9. Rick gets alongside on the left going into 9 and then pulls and over-under going to 10. He definitely had the good position there, but had he carried speed through and driven over the slick part he may have taken us both out. Appreciate him recognizing that. I got by Longwell and 2 and Rick followed. We finished in that order, just as we were under caution. Spoke to the CS after the race and asked what the deal was. Sounds like a delay in communication to go green and it was too late to get it out for us leaders. Happens.
Here's a video from Saturday's qualifying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSWVhjjG1ZE
Most classes were slower than the old track records, except for FP and STU. Turn 10 is definitely slower, but Turn 9 may be a bit faster and the overall grip is better. This lap is about a second and a half under the old record. Amazing what good grip will do for you!