Poll on open hood impound.

[Al Seim]

Poll question is simply:

Should SCCA Club Racing mandate or encourage all Regional and National impounds to be open hood for door-slammer type cars?

I say yes as it adds "daylight" to the process and discourages gross violations or the perception of gross violations.

Kevin says no as it violates a racer's proprietary information or privacy.

Al Seim
1.6 HP Scirocco

 

[KDENNIS]

My simple question for anybody that wants open hood impound.

What do you want to look at?

 

[Al Seim]

I was going to avoid debate here but I'll bite:

For purposes of detecting gross irregularity: To see if it is at least the correct engine and induction.

For purposes of understanding the competition well enough to have some vague notion as to whether there should be doubt as to legality, and to get some idea where the illegaility might lie: To see what configuration is being run.

Ron said it well below:

" I think with all of the different configurations that are out there with limited prep, full-prep, and hybrids, and all of the issues associated with these configurations like wet/dry sumps, stock/dog boxes, and the changes in weight that go along with some of them, I think an open hood is probably a good way to handle the issue."

 

[KDENNIS]

My simple question for anybody that wants open hood impound.

What do you want to look at?

1. Engine casting number
2. LP stock manifold casting
3. Stock throttle body

 

[RussMyers]

I've been a gear head all my life. I just like looking at cool cars.

Russ

 

[Mark Meller]

I've never said no to anyone who's asked to see something on one of our cars. However, I think I'd like to reserve that right.

 

[Ron Bartell]

I have mixed feelings about this. I certainly understand where Kevin is coming from, but in reality if someone came by and asked to see my engine bay, or anything else about the car, and did it respectfully, I would most likely show them, even if they were a close competitor on the track. I have in fact done that my entire racing career.

Not to mention the fact that I was told by my crew that every time I was away from my car at a recent runoffs, the same guy came over and checked out everything that he wanted to know while I was away. Is it right? No, but it happens. I certainly learned a lot from other people while I was working my way through the regional ranks, so anything that someone else might learn from me is payback in a way.

I think with all of the different configurations that are out there with limited prep, full-prep, and hybrids, and all of the issues associated with these configurations like wet/dry sumps, stock/dog boxes, and the changes in weight that go along with some of them, I think an open hood is probably a good way to handle the issue. Otherwise a competitor has to put up money and protest, which can lead to hard feelings. If you have discovered some speed secret that you don't want discovered, then you would also have to come up with a way to keep it under wraps. Open hood doesn't mean there is a license to remove covers or shields does it? If it does, then I would be against it.

 

[Matt Blehm]

I'm with Ron..
There aren't too many (zero) other 240SX competitors in the area, but even if there were I'm not worried about anyone seeing or stealing any of my ideas. Even if they did, I'd rather beat them on the track with my driving vs. holding back information.

If you come up during an event and politely ask to see under my hood or check out the suspension, no problem (or simply go to my website and poke around my photo galleries). If you're sneaking around the paddock at night with a flashlight, then we have a problem.

Besides, if I want to see someone's top secret stuff, I'll just go hang out for a few hours at one of the local shops while they're getting an alignment.

 

[bfloyd]

I say no, like others have said let me reserve the right to not show you some things. However I have yet to say no to anyone that has asked me.

Bryan Floyd
GTL 44 & 70

 

[Dayle Frame]

I voted no for this reason. Yes, I'm proud of my engineerign but I've spent a helluva lot of money developing things that might be proprietary. I'd prefer to show things to folks at my paddock spot.....not out in the eyes of the tech folks.

But, like Bryan, I've not turned anyone away.

Dayle

 

[loopracing]

I agree with Mark. I have no problem opening my hood for others, when I decide to. Our car spends most of the weekend with the hood open anyway. We've kibitzed with our fellow competitors over an open hood many times. I'd be flattered to have a fellow competitor look under there. I don't see it as necessary at impound.

 

[joecam96]

If you're top 3 you usually have to open your hood for a fuel sample, but I don't think that it should be mandatory to leave it open. Like others have said, I have a big collection of photos of other cars that I have learned from, but they were all taken with permission of the owners.

 

[downingracing]

I say if you want to verify someone is legal - ask them to show you in the paddock. If they say no, you can write the paper and 'find out'. We have a process in place to verify the legal-ness of a car. Many folks have some trick (legal) ideas under the hood and shouldn't be required to share that information at impound.

The things you can see with an open hood are all items that should be $0 cost protest items. The cost of a protest and you know.

 

[disquek]

This is a very interesting issue. But I don't think that in practical reality it's much of a problem.

I only know one racer who's even a little secretive about his car, and even he doesn't go to the trouble of actually covering it up.

Everyone I've ever raced against has been more excited to show off their custom creations than to cover them up. I know I am.

I think this is a case where we need to consider the "fun factor". Will it ruin someone's fun to force them to open their hood and reveal their super secret quantum intake charge turbulator? Yes. For sure. What about the opposite? Whose fun benefits from forced open hoods? No one.

-Kyle

PS: That same "secretive" racer once yelled out my cold tire pressures at the runoffs while paddocked next to a competitor who we knew was running his pressures too high. At dinner that night, we all got a great laugh from that one!

 

[EPrill]

I voted no.

I think there are a lot of people out there that are not cheating, but would prefer not to have every one of their competitors have a good look at things like cold air intake, header, breathers, brake systems, etc. To Kevin's point there are quite a few things that allow for creativity under the hood. I never thought much about it when I had a Lotus which was a pretty unique car. Now that I have a cookie-cutter limited prep car, I can see how someone might prefer to keep some things to themselves.

If Tech can measure track and take fuel, they can certainly look at engine block, head stamps if they need to. Heck they're welcome to check a lot of things without a bond. It should be someone's right, though, to keep a lot of their creativity to themselves if they choose. Just my opinion.

 

[TED HEINRITZ]

If you want to see anything under the hood of my car, come by where the car is parked, look all you want and ask questions.

The only problem I see most of use don't have hood hinges, so what to do with the hood. Lean it against the car, with one edge on the ground, no thanks. My car looks bad enough without any help from a uneeded rule.

If you see something that you think isn't legal, it doesn't have to be taken care of at impound does it....

 

[KDENNIS]

My simple question for anybody that wants open hood impound.

What do you want to look at?

1. Engine casting number
2. LP stock manifold casting
3. Stock throttle body

21 Yes votes, 440 views and other than Al, not one explanation of what anybody would actually look at with the hood pulled off.

 

[BobC]

Hood - you mean that thing covering the front compartment (AKA bonnet)
All you will see is the fuel cell, fuel pump, brake and clutch hydraulics, and battery
Now the engine compartment is behind the driver and you can see through it

 

[Ron Bartell]

My simple question for anybody that wants open hood impound.

What do you want to look at?

1. Engine casting number
2. LP stock manifold casting
3. Stock throttle body

21 Yes votes, 440 views and other than Al, not one explanation of what anybody would actually look at with the hood pulled off.

OK Kevin, I'll take the bait, especially since more people don't want the open hood policy - It is not a question of what anyone wants to look at. It is a question of allowing anyone to look at anything they want, creating an atmosphere of trust rather than secrecy.

Why do we want the CRB and BOD meeting minutes to be available to the membership? What do we want to know about their meetings? The answer is we don't know what we don't know. But if we don't know what is going on, it gives an air of secrecy.

I was told by an old-time racer that in the early days of National racing, the scrutineers had you open the hood so that they could inspect the inside of the engine compartment. Today this is not done because there are too many races and too many classes within the races to allow them the time to look at anything other than weight, track, and maybe fuel. So the competitors maybe need to do the job that was previously done by tech. They were not allowed to take anything apart, but they could look around and make sure the right motor was being run and things like that.

Now in some people's case they must have a lot of speed secrets hidden under that hood. But many people are just as proud of what they have accomplished in terms of packaging, solving problems, etc., as they are afraid of giving away secrets. They say they would gladly open the hood to show someone. I don't see why that can't be done at impound.

Just my opinion.

 

[Don Walsh]

Ron has stated it better than I did. Is there anything that is really so trick that a simple visual inspection will allow someone to duplicate it and wipe out any competitive advantange?