JasonIsley99
Well-known member
0.950 Ton
861826 Grams
30400 Oz
861.83 Kilos
:lol:
861826 Grams
30400 Oz
861.83 Kilos
:lol:
New rule for 2012?? Weight number listed on side of door
- Thread starter Think Racing
- Start date
Jay Griffin
Well-known member
Jason@SportsCar":3bdd92k0 said:
Leave no 'stone' unturned Jason. 135.715
:mrgreen:
James Rogerson
Well-known member
So let's add everything on the side of the car, i.e. WB/TRACK/Weight and do away with those stupid tech sheets left over from 1950. :applause: Better yet just have the tech entry information on a iphone-droid app and let the cloud handle it.
James
James
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
EPrill":2cofv579 said:
Those could also replace transponders, just scan the car as it goes by start finish, just like a UPS package. :lol:
Matt Blehm
Moderator
Jason@SportsCar":19xtp5wh said:
But what happens if mine is mounted on my bumper 2" farther back than the guy I'm racing.. We need to have a standard for the mounting location so that they can't cross the line 2" behind me and still win.
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
Matt93SE":27lyroc3 said:
How is that any different than a transponder now?
Bobby Lentz
Well-known member
I am told that they don't use transponders for the official lap chart, only for timing. They eyeball the order across the line.
JasonIsley99
Well-known member
Bobby Lentz":1buwq7t5 said:
Right, so it would be exactly the same as it is now. Although, we would need a couple of people with good aim and hand held scanners to tag them as the rip by start/finish. :mrgreen: Or a giant laser above the track with the QR on the roof of each car. :ask:
Ah, this reminds me to revive one of my favorite hobbyhorses:
All impound sessions should be open hood for all doorslammer type cars. Especially now that many cars have a wide variety of engine/trans combinations and prep levels allowed at various weights, it just stands to reason that we all should be able to see one another's engine compartments in impound. It's as much a trustbuilder as anything else.
It should not take a protest to get some sunlight on the engine!
Al Seim
HP Scirocco 1.6
All impound sessions should be open hood for all doorslammer type cars. Especially now that many cars have a wide variety of engine/trans combinations and prep levels allowed at various weights, it just stands to reason that we all should be able to see one another's engine compartments in impound. It's as much a trustbuilder as anything else.
It should not take a protest to get some sunlight on the engine!
Al Seim
HP Scirocco 1.6
Al Seim":23a2wd2x said:
Absolutely not. SM, sure. SRF sure. They are all suppose to look the same. Prod cars are not. Production is a builders class, its about ingenuity and creative engineering. If you think something is illegal it costs you 50 bucks and tech will let you know if you are right. Why do you get to look at my intake system that is unrestricted and cost me thousands and thousands of dollars, under the guiles of making sure my wheel wells aren't cut?
It should take a protest to get some sunlight on the engine!
Matt Blehm
Moderator
It's just my opinion, but I got nuthin to hide.... come on over while I'm in the pits and I'll let you snoop and ask all the questions you want.
Then again, I don't have a top secret intake that cost me thousands. hell the car didn't even cost that much to begin with.
Then again, I don't have a top secret intake that cost me thousands. hell the car didn't even cost that much to begin with.
Matt93SE":2xj4yipj said:
"nothing to hide" eludes to hiding non-compliant parts. Its more about protecting a fair advantage resulting from 10 years of development and the "trick" part.
With an open hood impound it would be way to easy to see something and say to yourself
"hey thats cool, I have that problem too, I never thought of that, thats the way the fix that and make my car faster". With a 10 second look you now have the benefit of seeing the 4th
design of a part that took years to get right and many $ to develop.
I'm certain that I won't convince you, Kevin!
But I think that the very strong counterargument is this - how the heck am I, or anyone else, going to deduce anything specific about your engine to protest if all we know about it is that it makes a noise and pushes the car?
We know that the tech guys can't possibly know enough about each flavor and subflavor of car to really police anything in annual tech other that basic safety compliance. Does it really make sense that essentially no one other than the car owner ever looks under the hood??
Add that to the fact that there is a fairly strong ethic against shotgun - or really any - protests in most race groups and you have an atmosphere that can lead to vague ill feelings but nothing specific. Not to mention that (though I sure you wouldn't do it) it has to be true that lack of sunlight must at times encourage cheaters. Who do exist I think!
Are there really very many underhood sights that would lead to "Aha! I can now benefit illicitly from your years of hard work" moments or is this more of a philosophical objection? I'm as proud of my spiffy radiator shroud as the next guy but the real (legal!) "speed secrets" (ie thought and hard work) are inside the engine. Which - if the hood is up - you can at least see is the correct block and head casting and correct induction system....
One could take it a step further and object to putting the weight on the door, in that it signals (hopefully!) which of potentially many engine/trans/prep level combinations you've chosen, which can be a major part of success......
But I think that the very strong counterargument is this - how the heck am I, or anyone else, going to deduce anything specific about your engine to protest if all we know about it is that it makes a noise and pushes the car?
We know that the tech guys can't possibly know enough about each flavor and subflavor of car to really police anything in annual tech other that basic safety compliance. Does it really make sense that essentially no one other than the car owner ever looks under the hood??
Add that to the fact that there is a fairly strong ethic against shotgun - or really any - protests in most race groups and you have an atmosphere that can lead to vague ill feelings but nothing specific. Not to mention that (though I sure you wouldn't do it) it has to be true that lack of sunlight must at times encourage cheaters. Who do exist I think!
Are there really very many underhood sights that would lead to "Aha! I can now benefit illicitly from your years of hard work" moments or is this more of a philosophical objection? I'm as proud of my spiffy radiator shroud as the next guy but the real (legal!) "speed secrets" (ie thought and hard work) are inside the engine. Which - if the hood is up - you can at least see is the correct block and head casting and correct induction system....
One could take it a step further and object to putting the weight on the door, in that it signals (hopefully!) which of potentially many engine/trans/prep level combinations you've chosen, which can be a major part of success......
Bobby Lentz":3029e650 said:
This is true.
"Taping" as it's called is impossibly hard. As a part of my stewards's training I had to participate in each specialty. This was by far the most humbling. Major props to those that do it every weekend.
I've heard many complain when T&S flags their numbers as hard to read. And until I taped for the first time, I thought that T&S was just being overly picky. So not true.
At 100mph when 50 cars are whiring by at once, you cannot afford to wonder "is that a 6 or a 5?" for even a split second.
Good times ....
-Kyle
dave parker
Well-known member
Here is a thought that I had last night while working on my SPU (Super Production Under) car.
SPU is a regional class, there is no "minimum weight" for any car in SPU.
So, what do I show for my minimum weight number? "NMW" for No Minimum Weight, or the infinity symbol, or nothing at all?
Inquiring minds want to know.
cheers
dave parker
SPU is a regional class, there is no "minimum weight" for any car in SPU.
So, what do I show for my minimum weight number? "NMW" for No Minimum Weight, or the infinity symbol, or nothing at all?
Inquiring minds want to know.
cheers
dave parker
No, you won't convince me Al.Al Seim":1ifkb6hy said:
What would you deduce about my engine by looking at it? You can't even know it makes noise or pushes the car sitting in impound. If you want to know my casting numbers are correct it will cost you 50 bucks. Walk over Friday night tell me your think I am running the wrong head and you are filing a protest in the morning. I will either show the casting or tell you to go S#*t in your hat. Anything else is gonna cost you a bond for a tear down.Al Seim":1ifkb6hy said:
Yes, I think it does.Al Seim":1ifkb6hy said:
The stigma that you mention about a filing protest is not a reason to justify an open hood impound. Protests, if handled correctly will not lead to hard feelings. Many years ago I had suspicions of a non-compliant part on a competitors car. I asked Sam Halkias what I should do, and he gave me what I thought was excellent advice. If you think something is illegal, approach the competitor tell him who you are, what you think is non-compliant, why you think it is non-compliant. If he thinks it is legal he will most likely tell you why, he may tell you to go pound sand and protest him. At that point you have at least opened a dialouge, you may have a difference of opinion about the rule. Tell him you disagree with his interpretation and you feel you have no choice but to protest at the next event you are at.Al Seim":1ifkb6hy said:
Just off the top of my head I can think of 4 things I don't want someone to see. They are small, and make small improvements, individually they don't seem like a big deal but put them together and they represent an increase in performance and significant time and money in developing. I truely believe it is all about the little things, you add them all up and it results in a fast car. If you feel all the speed secrets are inside the engine, then what do you want to see that your not willing to spend 50 bucks on?Al Seim":1ifkb6hy said:
Let me share a story. At the runoffs in final qualifying my brother pitched the car into the gravel trap in turn 1 at mid-ohio. There was gravel everywhere. We had the car completely torn apart. Up in the air without a panel on it. We were in the nissan tent and really couldn't prevent anybody from having a look see. Jesse Prather walked over and stood 2 bays away until we saw him standing there. He said " im not gonna come any closer, just wanted to make sure Mark was OK, let me know if you need anything". I thought that was a classy move and always respected him for that.
Never look at another mans car without asking permission.
Never lift another mans car cover.
Always return a tool to the hand of the guy you borrowed it from, CLEAN!
Always return a borrowed vehicle with a full tank of gas.
dave parker
Well-known member
If you show infinity I'm pretty sure that you will be dsq'ed.....????
[/quote]On what grounds could I be disqualified?
cheers
dave parker