Whats happened to Northeast racing ?

M

mcfoo

Well-known member
As of the last Sportscar (3/16), here are some observations.:

Two(2) of our Majors are combined with other divisions. (losing Pocono resulted in the 2nd one) . ..and VIR and M-O are on the outer fringes of the division geographically.

There appears to be only fifteen (15) regional dates and one of those is restricted..... and only four (4) of these are labeled RO (Runoff) eligible. Isn't that the bare minimum for pursuing the divisional path to the Runoffs? Miss just one of these and your toast.

Eliminate Palmer and Thompson which are fairly recent additions and the whole thing looks pretty anemic to me.

Once upon a time didn't the NE rival the SE for number of total events..I think this year the SE has 27+ a differential of 12 +/-

Gone are Pocono, , Mosport, Nelson Ledges, (Bridgehampton R.I.P.). I know some of these are considered less than desirable venues, but.....

So, what could be contributing to this apparent fall-off:

Have our participation numbers dwindled.?
Were there too many races to begin with?...conflicting with others?
Are the track rentals too high?
Is competition for track dates at an all time feverish pitch
Is it the leadership within the division or...
Could Topeka be playing a roll?
..are there other reasons I've missed

What are your thought or observations.?

Tom B.
FP #50
 
Well, yes, regional numbers are down. Maybe a little more than some divisions and less than others. I believe the NER does not feel they have a track as of yet where the Majors fit. Lime Rock has that whole friday/saturday thing going on with no racing allowed on friday. NHMS and Thompson are not Majors caliber tracks and Palmer still needs more infrastructure to be completed. And nobody that runs the show up here gives a rodents behind about Majors racing anyway. Pocono is also not what most would call a Majors quality track. Thank christ they dropped it from the schedule. I believe Palmer once more complete would be a great track to hold a Majors event. Probably a few more years. With the advent of so many other racing options, NASA, Lemons, and dozens of other track day entities, the SCCA has withered. We didn't have a bad product. But like when any new restaurant opens, many will want to try a new option. But with racing it means building cars that may not cross over. So dilution has happened in a huge way. Now we have no really strong nationwide organization. Now we have everyone with a place to win. Which is what it all amounts to. Those that could not win in the SCCA went to where there could.
 
You might be selling Pocono a little short.

They repaved the entire oval (thus the return of Indycar) and..they re-did the entire infield course. When used in the "double infield" configuration it ain't half bad IMHO. Lots of FIA curbing and two WOT portions which might be ideal for setting up a car for Indy in 2017.

Paddocking has been a past issue but if the regional folks do their homework the NASCAR garage area is now open for use under the "new" track management. Once upon a time the NACAR garage area was strictly off limits but not any longer.

I was personally disappointed to have seen the majors race cancelled.

Tom B.
 
Tom

Pocono has been very much improved and I will miss not racing there. It is definitely a Majors track. The addition of the south infield made so much better.
The scheduling of a regional race at NJMP was one reason for Pocono being taken off the calendar. This date has been a traditional one for as long as I remember at Pocono and that is a long time. Workers for the event would have been a problem as there is also a regional at Pitt that date.
There is obviously a problem of the regions coordinating the race dates. Palmer is a concrete canyon and not a Majors track.

Johannes Krauss
HP VW Scirooco
 
Palmer is a concrete canyon
By that thinking I guess you feel Watkins Glen is also not a majors quality track as it is lined with Armco and no runoff room. :roll:
 
I raced at Lime Rock last August on a friday for a solid 8 hrs and also Sat another 8hrs. Maybe they don't let scca race on fridays? As far as people leaving scca because they can't win ? Not really sure that is the correct reason, I can think of many other reasons that I have heard.

I think Pocono would be a good majors track also, hell daytona hosted the runoffs and talk about boring track.
 
I ran the new layout at Pocono a couple of years ago when they had a majors. I liked the layout better than the old one. But, it's dead flat, narrow, and still VERY bumpy. They paved it, but they just paved over the bumps.

Palmer looks far more interesting. But the armco is awful close. WGI gets away with it because of it's history. It's hard to justify the risk at such a new track. So the jury is out for me. Love the layout. Hate the risk.

One real jewel in NEDIV is Pitt Race with it's new extension. It's an AMAZING track now. With both the track layout and facility to make it top notch. I cannot understand why this is a two day event? The one track that almost no one has any seat time at, and we schedule the minimum time!?

NJMP is safe and fun. But also flat and lacking history. Compared to other tracks on the NEDIV schedule it's the runt of the litter. What makes NJMP work is that it's close to a lot of people. So it's the convenient option. Why not make NJMP the two day event? This would solidify it's position on the schedule as the convenient option and allow us to make the Pitt Race event a proper 3 day event.

-Kyle
 
disquek said:
One real jewel in NEDIV is Pitt Race with it's new extension. It's an AMAZING track now. With both the track layout and facility to make it top notch. I cannot understand why this is a two day event? The one track that almost no one has any seat time at, and we schedule the minimum time!?
Click to expand...
Pretty much any Majors/National event at that facility has had a pretty terrible a turnout, and until that changes, no local regional board is going to take on the risk and expense of a three day event. Plus the three-day Mid-Ohio Majors is only three weeks later, and if anyone is having chose one or the other, damn near everyone will be picking Mid-Ohio this year. By making Pitt only a two day event, I bet that will make some people a bit more willing to do both, rather than picking just one. I agree that it could eventually turn into a bigger event, which could support a three day Majors, but I understand the reasoning for not trying it this year.
 
The problem with Lime Rock was that a three day Major wouldn't work because of no racing on Sunday. Now that we are having two day Majors it is time to get it back on the schedule. As for the rap that the rental makes the entry fee too high what do you think it costs the New England/NYC area racers to tow to Summit/VIR/Pitt/MO?
 
Dick Barlow said:
The problem with Lime Rock was that a three day Major wouldn't work because of no racing on Sunday. Now that we are having two day Majors it is time to get it back on the schedule. As for the rap that the rental makes the entry fee too high what do you think it costs the New England/NYC area racers to tow to Summit/VIR/Pitt/MO?
Click to expand...

Dick,
That was part of my hidden agenda(disappointment) regarding the elimination of the Pocono event.

Instead of a two (2) hour tow I now get to tow ten/eleven(10-11) hours to M-O plus big tolls. (BTW this is not a knock on M-O, I love the track).

Didn't we say,(when asked by the SCCA) we wanted more racing in a more consolidated format. I guess we got 1/2 of the equation...I just don't see the need for three (3) day events. Unless I'm missing something, why not use Pitt as a template for all events...just say'n.

Tom B.
 
kruck said:
Pretty much any Majors/National event at that facility has had a pretty terrible a turnout.....
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying. But this is a new track, this is not the old BeaveRun.

This new facility can be promoted and, if given a shot, it can be a big event. I could easily see this being a runoffs venue, it's THAT good.

Giving it a second tier date and making it a poor value dollar wise (entry fee dollars per day) is not helping. It feels like the old days of divisions scheduling nationals and events on "welfare". Smart businesses promote their best products.

I was glad to see Pocono removed from the NEDIV schedule, despite it being very close to my home. It's just not a top tier track. Flat and bumpy is not a good combo. I know some disagree. It's good to see leadership making good choices.

Here's some Pitt Race video: https://youtu.be/lNKjLaTrrek

-Kyle
 
Not to blast Beaverun, but there's no way that can be a runoffs facility. The paddock could barely handle the 150ish cars we had there last August. And there are zero places for spectators to watch other than the bill hill on the inside of turn 1.
 
Jason,

Were you and I at the same event/facility?!?!?!

Most of the paddock that we used was empty and there were whole paved lots that were roped off and totally unused. Plus tons of unused flat unpaved ground. Did you see the massive lot off of the T2-T3 straight that's the paddock for the new section when the tracks are separate?

There could be more places to watch from. Again some of them were fenced off (straight after T2). That hill is the best place to watch from for sure, as you can see almost 80% of the track. There are few, if any, tracks that offer as good of a view as that hill has. I'd like them to open up spectator access to the new track section with the huge valley. That would be a great place to watch from!

The only hindrance to having the runoffs there that I can see is a lack of nearby hotels.

-Kyle
 
With Pittsburgh just a short distance away hotels are not a problem. Its about a 20 minute drive to Pittsburgh and the airport also. Very easy access. That's where I stayed at in 2015's Majors.
 
Kyle,
Your race with the #60 car looked fantastic. You guys probably race each other a lot, which is reflected in the respect you show for one another. That red 2002 Bimmer certainly didn't do you any favors...asleep at the switch.
On another observation, those tires at the apexes look imposing and dangerous. What the heck happens if you hit those...nothing very good I suspect.
I probably have been to 15-20 tracks in my racing career and have never come across anything like that...even hillbilly tracks like the old Rockingham or Second Creek(CO) neither being known for anything remotely acceptable.
I raced at the old Beaver Run years ago and am genuinely glad they resurrected that place.
I'm hoping to return this year but I gotta tell ya those tires should not be acceptable :-[... to the SCCA or the those of us that race on that track.

Tom B.
 
Hi Tom,

The tires were an unwelcome temporary stop-gap until they installed proper curbs. They (likely rightfully) were concerned that racers would apex about 2' in the dirt. I know some folks lost noses to those tires. But I dont think anyone in small bore did. I have a nice black smudge from one that gave me great pride in my apexing prowess!

The new FIA curbs were completed shortly after that race and all of the tires are gone.

Thanks for comments about our racing. Bobby (the 60 car) and I have raced many many times and it's great fun. Warren Montague, Bob Dowie, Brian Downey, Wilson Wright Jr, and a host of others here in the NEDIV have all raced that close for years. There is also a group of newer GTL folks right behind us doing the same. Life is good!

-Kyle
 
With all this talk about racing in the North East.

Does anyone have a copy of the regional race schedule?

What happened to Pocono, typically it was the season opening event in May? If your survive Pocono your good for several more races.

Just how well would I have to do in regional races to make it to the big one at MID OHIO?

I still have a lot of work to do.... But I still think I can get it done before May.
 
disquek said:
Hi Tom,

The tires were an unwelcome temporary stop-gap until they installed proper curbs. They (likely rightfully) were concerned that racers would apex about 2' in the dirt. I know some folks lost noses to those tires. But I dont think anyone in small bore did. I have a nice black smudge from one that gave me great pride in my apexing prowess!

The new FIA curbs were completed shortly after that race and all of the tires are gone.

Thanks for comments about our racing. Bobby (the 60 car) and I have raced many many times and it's great fun. Warren Montague, Bob Dowie, Brian Downey, Wilson Wright Jr, and a host of others here in the NEDIV have all raced that close for years. There is also a group of newer GTL folks right behind us doing the same. Life is good!

-Kyle
Click to expand...

I'll confirm that the tires are gone, I ran at the regional there in Sept of last year and all the curbing was installed.
I'll second the sentiment of what Kyle posted, I think its a great facility with near unlimited potential.
I had a great time, picked up a great race with a GTL car (in that weekends small bore regional group we had it made it great fun even out of class, neither one of us had any other in class competitors).
The paddocks were nice, bathrooms clean and nice, tech shed nice and ample room.
That place is solid.
I'll be going back.
PS: Kyle I used your YouTube videos from the Majors to learn the track. Your great driving and excellent video quality helped immeasurably. Thanks!
 
Just a point of comparison

Quad Regional (four races - two days) Pueblo Motorsports Park, Colorado
Entry Fee $400.00
Total entry - 26 :oops:

I ran a vintage race a month later - same track
My run group - small bore closed wheel - 27 (five groups) :D

Is there a problem in SCCA - you bet :-[...
 
I have been getting a real education in this over the past several months with my new position.

The short answer is, costs go up, and entries go down. The regions are fighting a losing battle in trying to meet a budget.
We also lose people to the "next big thing". If the region ties going after or getting back the racers that went to the
"next big thing", then we lose our core. You almost want to be less successful than semi successful. The DC region has 8
run groups, but most of that is driven by 2 spec classes with enough numbers and political power to keep a run group. We have
ideas, but nowhere to run them.

On a different tact, we have outside and inside pressures that have made scheduling majors, and scheduling race weekends in general,
a real PITA. With all of the other race groups/track days/other events, if a region gets a hold of a track date or dates, they are often "use or lose".
Many tracks are booked up well before the regions or division sits down to work out a schedule. Instead of the REs getting in the room with an empty calendar
and laying out a coherent race program. For the most part, the regions are coming to the party with what they have, and trying to make sense of the mess.
We end up with back to back race weekends, Competing race events, and Nonsensical start or end dates.

On the majors front, we also went crazy for dates. Part of the idea was for fewer races in order to drive competition and increase the entries for the events.
No one wanted to lose "their" race, and so we went right back to a large number of events. Ironically, this may lead to an eventual contraction through attrition,
as regions decide the cost of a Majors event with the reduced number of entries is no longer viable. Survival of the fittest, but at what cost to the overall program?

2 day events make a lot more sense than 3 days, from the regions standpoint. Beyond the extra day of track rental, we have a worker issue. It is not just the extra cost
of worker meals, but simply the fact that when you tell workers that you need to take off an extra day of work to come volunteer, the pool becomes much smaller.
This means either less workers on station on Friday, or the extra cost of the paid workers from the track, or both. If WDCR had been aware that more and more 2 day
events were being sanctioned, the Summit Majors probably would have been one.

As far as regional events go, There are 6 races over 5 weekends at Summit Point as part of the MARRS championship. Of the 4 away races, for the series, 2 are held at
other NEDIV tracks (PIRC and NJMP) plus a double at VIR. MARRS I is part of the divisional championship.

As a Small Bore note, STU is no longer in the run group.
 
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