Runnoffs coating protest

[Scott Sanda]

So does the CRB rules change, item 9, page 13 of the preliminary tech bulletin mean that Eric's nice shiny thermal coated intake manifold heads for the scrap pile?

I'll bet that was an interesting discussion.

 

[David Dewhurst]

9. #17966 (Kevin Ruck) Clarify Drive Train Coatings -

Intake Manifold In GCR section 9.1.5.E.2.b.7., make the following changes:
"The intake manifold may be port matched on the port mating surface to a depth of no more than one inch. Balance pipes or tubes on all intake manifolds can be plugged or restricted. The intake manifold cannot otherwise be modified. In all other respects the intake manifold must be stock. Plating, painting or coating of the intake manifold is prohibited."


Eliminate bold highlited words above.
Add underlined words above.

The written words below of 2. Drive Train Level showed up after the 2008 PCS re-write and are the same today.
PCS-627/628
2. Drive Train Level 2
2.a.3. Stock and permitted alternate components of the drive train can have thermal barrier and friction altering coatings applied. (Anyone know where this rule came from and by who?)

PCS-629
Succeeding written words were in the Spec Line until the PCS re-write of 2008 and are the same today with current suggested new words.

2.a.7. The intake manifold may be port matched on the port mating surface to a depth of no more than one inch. Balance pipes or tubes on all intake manifolds can be plugged or restricted. The intake manifold can not otherwise be modified. In all other respects the intake manifold must be stock. Plating, painting or coating of the intake manifold is prohibited."


Being that interpreting the GCR precedent rules are in place per below, and the only words changed are the words of rule 2.a.7 above it would seem that a last rule written over rides proceeding written rule or rules. The 2.a.7 current/clarified rule above seems to be the rule that some folks believed applied previous the 2015 Runoffs. Car prep costs and dwindling car counts is what brought about the Restricted Prep/Level 2 Prep cars during the mid 1990's.

1.2. SCCA GENERAL COMPETITION RULES SCCA
1.2.3. Interpreting and Applying the GCR A. Interpreting the GCR shall not be strained or tortured and applying the GCR shall be logical, remembering that the GCR cannot specifically cover all possible situations. Words such as “shall” or “shall not”, “will” or “will not”, “can not”, “may not”, “are” or “must” are mandatory; and words such as “may” and “should” are permissive. B. References in the GCR to the SCCA Operations Manual and the SCCA Insurance Manual are for informational purposes; these SCCA documents may not be protested or appealed. C. Conflicts among or between portions of the GCR are handled as follows:

1. The Category Rules take precedence over the General Technical Specifications.

2. Specific class rules in the Category Section of the GCR shall take precedence over the general Category Rules and the General Technical Specifications.

3. Any item not addressed in the Category Rules is controlled by the General Technical Specifications.

 

[EPrill]

Shiny door stop for sale! Cheap!

 

[HPCRX36]

My intake manifold came from the factory with a black paint on the outside. Does this this mean I need to pull the manifold and remove the paint? It says it must remain stock but no paint, can't have both ways on the 84-87 Civics and CRXs.

 

[kruck]

The Runoffs identified a couple "open to interpretation" and "grey" areas in the Prod rules, so there were a couple of changes made to try and better clarify things to say exactly what is meant/intended. I'm sure everyone has their own opinion on how they interpreted these rules originally, and in which direction they wish they had been "clarified" towards, but the greatest goal is to do a better job of clarifying things to say exactly what we mean them to say. Hopefully these changes will accomplish that, as that was the sole goal. I'm sure some of these things might put people out a little but, like Eric's manifold now having to be swapped out and my air-dam having to be slightly modified, but hopefully these "open to interpretation" areas have now been shored up a bit and not arise again, so we can all get back to racing. :mrgreen:


edit:

My intake manifold came from the factory with a black paint on the outside. Does this this mean I need to pull the manifold and remove the paint? It says it must remain stock but no paint, can't have both ways on the 84-87 Civics and CRXs.

Apparently we still need to an even better job. The point is "leave it 100% as-delivered-from-the-factory stock".

 

[disquek]

Maybe a quick trip to the glass bead cabinet might be more appropriate ...

-Kyle

 

[FP Racer]

For me, this is like peeing on yourself in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but only you know it!

 

[billp]

How about "if it doesn't say you can, you can't" and stop there?

 

[CharlieC]

Jim that's a picture none of us needed

 

[Scott Sanda]

Jim,

Your dog will know what you did, and probably approve.

 

[Sam Moore]

Well, I guess I am really in trouble. Not only do I have the factory "paint" on my Honda's plenum--I substituted a decal for the missing factory one!!!! Good thing I have a 5 or 6 spares-sure hope I have an unmolested one!! Just have to remove the paint without harming the factory decal ?????

 

[Brian Linn]

9. #17966 (Kevin Ruck) Clarify Drive Train Coatings -

Intake Manifold In GCR section 9.1.5.E.2.b.7., make the following changes:
"The intake manifold may be port matched on the port mating surface to a depth of no more than one inch. Balance pipes or tubes on all intake manifolds can be plugged or restricted. The intake manifold cannot otherwise be modified. In all other respects the intake manifold must be stock. Plating, painting or coating of the intake manifold is prohibited."

So the rules are explicit on coatings, but what about thermal wraps that can be removed to find the stock manifold? I ASSUME you can use heat shields and as an extension of that I see the wraps as a heat shield. Tortured reading? you tell me. What about thermal barriers with adhesive backing? The stock manifold can still be revealed under the wrap.

Thoughts? Kruck?

 

[Protech Racing]

I put in a letter just for that. " heat shield may be 50% plus 2 in wrap over the ends." "the rule is good as written" but clearly it is not .
I dont think that adhesive backing is legal tho, as it is a coating.

100% Wrap looks legal to me.

 

[JasonIsley99]

9. #17966 (Kevin Ruck) Clarify Drive Train Coatings -

Intake Manifold In GCR section 9.1.5.E.2.b.7., make the following changes:
"The intake manifold may be port matched on the port mating surface to a depth of no more than one inch. Balance pipes or tubes on all intake manifolds can be plugged or restricted. The intake manifold cannot otherwise be modified. In all other respects the intake manifold must be stock. Plating, painting or coating of the intake manifold is prohibited."

So the rules are explicit on coatings, but what about thermal wraps that can be removed to find the stock manifold? I ASSUME you can use heat shields and as an extension of that I see the wraps as a heat shield. Tortured reading? you tell me. What about thermal barriers with adhesive backing? The stock manifold can still be revealed under the wrap.

Thoughts? Kruck?

Did the wrap come fitted stock?

Is a coating only something that is put on via a chemical process?

Merriam-Webster says: Coating: noun; a thin layer or covering of something.

Seems to me like anything that is covering the surface is a coating. :ask:

 

[David Dewhurst]

This morning it was 15* F out side and I put a coat on. Nuff said about coat/coating. :mrgreen:

1.2.3. Interpreting and Applying the GCR A. Interpreting the GCR shall not be strained or tortured and applying the GCR shall be logical, remembering that the GCR cannot specifically cover all possible situations.

All I want for Christmas is to know how the rule below came about? It showed up during the 2008 PCS re-write, how'd it get into the level 2 rules, from who? CRB members?

2. Drive Train Level 2
2.a.3. Stock and permitted alternate components of the drive train can have thermal barrier and friction altering coatings applied.

 

[michael heintzman]

(EDITED - mh)

All I want for Christmas is to know how the rule below came about? It showed up during the 2008 PCS re-write, how'd it get into the level 2 rules, from who? CRB members?

2. Drive Train Level 2
2.a.3. Stock and permitted alternate components of the drive train can have thermal barrier and friction altering coatings applied.

The bold highlighted section could imply an allowance for ISF (REM) on drive train components.

 

[David Dewhurst]

Michael, my curiosity is where did the rule come from, an unintentional carry over rule from level 1 to level 2 during the 2008 PCS rewrite. From a SCCA member or from the CRB?

As stated previously, Level 2 came about in the mid 1990's because of car prep cost and dwindling car counts.

 

[Ed Funk]

Would building an insulated box around the entire intake tract and filling it with dry ice be considered a coating? Gawd, doncha just LOVE the silly season? :mrgreen: