Roll cage rules

V

VWRalf

Well-known member
I'm interested in making my ITB Golf GT into a dual purpose car and I would like to run in HP when Sundays are national cars only. This wasn't a problem until this year because in MiDiv, we had a IT Tour race group on National weekends, so we could run both Sat and Sun. The Majors have screwed that up now! Hallett was to have been a Rational/National/IT Super Tour Event, but now its not. I'm not about to drive 7 1/2 hours and pay $295 just to race on Sat and then go home.
So my question is about the cage. I built my car in 2002 to IT specs and was issued my logbook that year. The GCR has Appendix J for cars built prior to 2004. So now what? Since I want to race the car in Prod this year, does that mean my cage has to meet todays roll cage specs since its a "New" Prod build even with its 2002 logbook, or do I follow Appendix J?

9.2.1 VEHICLE LOGBOOKSEach car shall have a complete and up-to-date logbook.
M. A car may be entered in multiple classes within a single sanction
numbered event. A single Vehicle Logbook is required, but it must
contain pictures of each configuration.

The above would lead me to believe that no new logbook would be issued just because I now want to race in Prod. What do you think?
Thanks
Ralf
 
APPENDIX J. 2004 PRODUCTION CATEGORY ROLL CAGE RULES
This appendix is present so that cages in Production cars with logbooks
from 2004 and earlier can be verified for compliance with the construction
rules required at the time the car was built.

This is what is confusing. Since it specifies Production Category cars built 2004 and earlier, does that mean that it would have had to been built to Production specs then in order to apply Appendix J?
 
My understanding is that you will need to update your cage to meet prod specs. It would be a good idea to have one of your division tech stewards advise you as to what those upgrades would be.
 
In what way is your cage not Prod legal? Many IT cages are, though I have not compared the rulesets lately.

Al Seim
 
Is your IT spec roll cage build from 2002 legal to the specs for pre 2004 production car specs?

As Don stated before you start modifying the existing roll cage have a tech steward look it over.

Post some pictures.
 


9.4. ROLL CAGES FOR GT AND PRODUCTION BASED CARS
2. One tube must extend, from each front down tube, forward
to the firewall or through the firewall except in vehicles in
Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring.
This tube, one on each side, must connect to the chassis at a
point not more than 12 inches forward of the front axle centerline.
3. Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec
Miata, and Touring may extend one tube, from each front
down tube, forward to the firewall, bulkhead or wheel well,
but not penetrating any panel.

Here are the GCR definitions:
Firewall – A vertical (plus or minus 10 degrees) metal panel separating and
protecting the driver/passenger compartment from the engine compartment,
preventing the passage of flame and debris. Metal ducts may penetrate
the firewall, but must begin and end outside of the driver/passenger
compartment. No intakes are allowed in the firewall.llow the ducting of air.

Bulkhead – A partition separating compartments.

Wheel Well – The volume under a fender

As you can see, I chose to attach my optional bars to the wheelwell instead of the firewall. Reason I did that is because the ventilation plenum and fan are still intact in my car. (Never know when you need the defrost to clear the windows.)
The drivers side would be even more difficult to attach to the firewall because of the clutch pedal.
Appendix J doesn't mention the attachment points to the firewall. Here is what it says about the two forward braces.
C. Front Hoop Bracing:
There shall be two (2) braces extending forward from the front hoop
to protect the driver’s legs. It is recommended that this bracing extend
to the bulkhead in front of the driver’s feet; but, in any case, it shall
be integrated into the frame or chassis to provide substantial support
for the front hoop. It is recommended that the verticle bars of the fornt
hoop be connected by a horizontal bar at a point above the driver’s legs.

By definition, what I have labeled as my wheelwell, could be considered a bulkhead.

So, what do you guys think? Legal as is or would I need to make changes?

Thanks.
Ralf
 
Looking at the pics and reading Appendix J your cage meets the pre 2004 prod cage requirements. If the car was classed in production In year the logbook was issued you should be good to go and just need to have the appropriate prod class added to the logbook next to the ITB (ITB/HP). No new logbook needed/Grandfathered.

MY $.02
 
VWRalf":1wbv2r24 said:


Appendix J doesn't mention the attachment points to the firewall. Here is what it says about the two forward braces.
C. Front Hoop Bracing:
There shall be two (2) braces extending forward from the front hoop
to protect the driver’s legs.

but, in any case, it shall
be integrated into the frame or chassis to provide substantial support
for the front hoop.

Thanks.
Ralf
Click to expand...

Looks like your good to go. You have 2 braces extending forwaed & they are attached to the chassis. :mrgreen:

Have a tech steward look it over before your first track day.
 
IMHO those forward braces are good, and Prod legal. Those "wheel well" panels are stronger than the flat part of the firewall and are what my cage ties to as well.

If this is the only issue you are good to go.

Have fun in Prod!

Al Seim
HP Scirocco 1.6
 
One migth assume, for a car built to 2002 rules for IT, that there may be some areas , like the side bars bisecting the door openings, or lateral tubes behind the seats, that should be looked for participation in Prod classes?
Just asking....
BC
 
I'm confused. From the odd angle of your photo, I see what look like horizontal bars crossing over the floor of the car, but no vertical downtube of the front hoop. Am I missing something? When we converted our Midget to Prod, we had to weld in two bars going forward from our front downtubes to the firewall, maybe 12" off the floor of the car. If this is supposed to keep the front part of the car structure from crushing back onto your legs, then it would seem that the closer the support is to the floor, the less protection it would give. Your set-up may be just fine, but getting a tech opinion is a good idea.

James Wiley
#72 HP Midget
 
Yes, what you say about the 12" off the floor and attached to the firewall is what I had questions about, because in the IT rules, I have the option of attaching optional bars to the firewall, wheel well housing, or the bulkhead. When I built my cage, I chose the wheel well in thinking that if a wheel were to get pushed back in an accident, the bars would give extra strength and keep the tire from crushing my legs/feet. If I remember corectly, crash tests for the mid 80's VW's showed failures of the footwell area in offset crashes that would injure the drivers feet.
I'll check with my tech inspector and see how he interprets the rule and go from there.
 
While I am not an engineer, I don't personally see the problem with what you've done.

If there ever was a time they're trying to retain drivers, it's now. I'd put in a request for clarification to the CRB - You may wind up not having to change anything at all.
 
I think that not only is it a structurally sound way to brace things, I'd even go so far as to say that the piece of metal to which the brace is attached meets both the spirit and letter of the rule re "firewall" even though the actual stamped metal part is not the piece which you'd normally call the firewall.

The part attached to is roughly vertical (at the point of attachment anyway), forms part of the barrier between the interior and the engine area, and is a major structural part of the front of the car.

My car has similar braces, just a bit higher. When I took the dash out I triangulated them upward to a point higher on the front hoop. That is not required, just done for a bit more safety and stiffness.

And I am an engineer so my opinion counts double! 8)

Al Seim
HP VW Scirocco 1.6
 
The wheel well and the firewall have both been considered the "firewall" in the past. The tube to the wheel well will do you more good in a wreck.
All of my cars have the wheel house tube, never had any issues with tech, going from IT rules to Prod rules. And the tech guys hate me.
 
Mike, I'm a tech guy and I don't hate you.

Seriously, take a bunch of photos of the cage in this car and email them to the Divisional Administrator of Tech in your division. You should be able to find his email address on your Division website.

That way, he can sign off on what you have or make a suggestion on what might need to be done.

Remember, what is posted here is just opinions.

GCR 1.2.3.D states

D. The interpretation and application of the GCR by SCCA officials is
final and binding.

Have fun!
 
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