Remove MX5 Global Cup cars from EP

P

Piner

New member
All I just submitted a request to the CRB to remove the $90,000 MX5 Global Cup car from EP. I have pasted the content below. I suggest all Production racers to say something about stopping sequential transmissions and ABS. This car is already approved for T3 and it should stay there and not in Production.

Tracking Number: #32102

Sam Henry and John Larue,
The professionally built MX5 Global Cup breaks all the production rules:
-Sequential transmissions are prohibited
-5 forward gears
-ABS brakes

This completely breaks the philosophy of production.

Request
Remove MX5 Global Cup car
or allow all cars to have the above performance upgrades.

Also the MX5 Global Cup sequential transmission is only $18,000.
 
I don't believe the sequential was part of the original classification - pretty sure it's listed as up to 2019, and the new trans did not come along until 2020. Perhaps the listing just didn't get updated, or the sequential isn't allowed. Really hard to tell since ratios are not listed.
 
Jason@SportsCar":10vav6jk said:
I don't believe the sequential was part of the original classification - pretty sure it's listed as up to 2019, and the new trans did not come along until 2020. Perhaps the listing just didn't get updated, or the sequential isn't allowed. Really hard to tell since ratios are not listed.
Click to expand...

Latest FasTrack just bumped inclusion on years out to include current.

I believe it got added because it actually runs on a slick and was protested earlier at a HST round in one of the DOT classes.

A couple years ago we had a bunch at the Sprints. They were mostly backmarkers. Not sure about performance potential relative to a true EP car. That said I bet it shined in the rain this past Sunday.
 
tschreyer":afnfmmaw said:
I believe it got added because it actually runs on a slick and was protested earlier at a HST round in one of the DOT classes.
Click to expand...
So our Touring 3 guys can't read the regs? TCS clearly specifies what tires they're required to run ("BF Goodrich G-Force Slick").

Sequential has been allowed in T3 with +100 pounds.

I'm sure our Touring and Production scrutineers are well-versed in the Global MX-5 Cup regulations.

Regardless, I sincerely doubt this has anything to do with a protest. The way things have been run these last several years, it's all about "who ya know". Find a buddy on the CRB and convince him you want to buy some pro car and "have a place to play" and next thing you know we're adding 80s GTP, 90s World SportsCar, and 00s LMP cars into "Grand Touring X".

GA

-- And if you think i'm being sarcastic on that last point, you might want to check out the January 2021 Fastrack.
 
Well I have been involved with this situation for the past 3 weeks when I first saw it entered at Sebring and then later Homestead. Emails to the registrar didn't seem to work so I included Rick Harris from National.He assured me that it would be taken care of, but what took place was a decision by the CRB and race committee on 01/07/2022 allowing the car to run production. Up until that point it didn't run practice or qualifying on Friday 01/07/2022 because it was not listed on the spec line for Eprod. Car ran Saturday 01/8/2022 and qualified on pole and easily won.The argument to include the car was that a review of the lap times were similar to Fprod and Eprod. Well if the car is a 2022 how was the analysis made. I work at a race course and I've watched a 2014 with all the upgrades( sequential box etc) testing there on many occasion and with the right driver its a rocket. This hasty decision Overlooked the sequential gearbox which is against the philosophy of production. I remember back in the days of IT when you had to wait years for your car to be eligible to run production.
What has changed ?
Sooo maybe we all request sequential gearboxes and since the horse has already left the barn, I could use coilovers to replace the 49 year old leaf springs I'm required to run.
Paul

ps after testing at Road Atlanta last year the 2022 cup car is 1 second faster than the previous car.
 
Wow !! We really need to pay attention to the "racing memos" directly from the BOD. Did this bypass the CRB or did they not catch the 21-22 updates ?
 
The 21-22 update was signed on 01/07/2022 and became effective immediately so the car could run Homestead 2nd day of qualifying and race 1.
The car was loaded in the trailer on Sunday before the Ep race.
There was no transparency here.
Paul.
 
Here is a copy of the email response I got from Rick Harris only after I inquired why the car was allowed to run at Homestead.

Hello Paul,



The Touring Committee and the Production Committee issued Race Memo 22-01 through the CRB to classify the ND2 years to present.



Racing Memo RM 22-01 EP & T3 Mazda Mx-5 ND2 Global Cup Car Classification https://www.scca.com/downloads/60103-rm ... n/download



The track record for EP at Homestead is 1.28.8. The Global Cup car was 5 seconds off of that. Global Cup cars (by default around the country) generally run fast FP times and won’t be a factor in a competitive EP field.



We will keep an eye on this car at Sebring. If you feel it’s missed classified, I would suggest creating a letter in the system with some details so the CRB and committees can review - http://www.clubracingboard.com/



Rick
 
This car will win on tracks with lots of turns. At Road Atlanta, VIR, or Road America it will not win. The issue is all the prohibited items like the sequential tranny and ABS.

I protested the car on Saturday at Sebring and I was denied. It was recommended by several SOMs to move forward with the protest. I have 10 days to appeal.

Sam Henry and John LaRue are the guys to convince to remove this car. I would like to understand why they even allowed it.

Please let me put a sequential tranny in my EP and I will add 100 lbs.... That is what STU is for.
 
Classifying a car in a particular class should not be solely on lap times compared to track records. It should be based on does it fit class philosophy. These cars DO NOT meet class philosophy in Prod and in fact DO NOT meet class philosophy in T3. The closest class they fit is STU and even there they should be required to run DOT tires.
We either truly stick to class philosophy and put cars in those classes accordingly and if they cannot be competitive well so be it. The GCR says there is no guarantee of competitiveness of your car. If we won't stick to class philosophy then we strictly go by power to weight ratio.
 
I agree the car doesn't fit philosophy for EP.
A note on STU-- at one time, they allowed current World Challenge TC cars to race per their exact spec line, including the Pirelli slicks. BUT the car had to meet the exact line--no mixing between STU and WCTC rules. So if it went to STU, it could run the slicks but would have to be identical to the spec line.

Then again, since STU is an inclusive class (bring your same-make chassis & engine, weight is based on displacement), it might meet STU regs as-is if they just put DOTs on it and be done.


but yeah it sounds like an STU car from the surface, not Prod. (don't put none of that high-fallutin' antee-lock-brakes in mah class! and make sure that it can still be beat by a car built in a garage in 1958!)
 
dpritchett2":2oq4dsy8 said:
Classifying a car in a particular class should not be solely on lap times compared to track records. It should be based on does it fit class philosophy. These cars DO NOT meet class philosophy in Prod and in fact DO NOT meet class philosophy in T3. The closest class they fit is STU and even there they should be required to run DOT tires.
We either truly stick to class philosophy and put cars in those classes accordingly and if they cannot be competitive well so be it. The GCR says there is no guarantee of competitiveness of your car. If we won't stick to class philosophy then we strictly go by power to weight ratio.
Click to expand...

And then we can eliminate half of the classes.
 
Leave the slicks on and stick them in SPU :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though that thing has no place in EP.
None.
STU on DOTs yep.
 
I guess the questions I would ask are--was this driver one of the best in the MX5 Series and does he have years of experience at Sebring? Reason I ask this is because from what I can find, he lowered the existing EP track record by one full second.

If the answers to these question are no and no, then there's a problem. No newly classified car should start setting new track records especially at a track like Sebring. It takes some time there to dial in the track.

It's fine for all the MX5 cars to race each other, but when you throw them into an existing class where cars have been developed for years and it excels, there's clearly a problem.

Everyone in EP needs to write letters to the CRB before this cat is completely out of the bag. Otherwise, get out your check book and credit cards. You'll need them.
 
Jim

That car in EP did not lower any track record. Sebring long track record is 2:22.9 by Kip V. The mx5 cup car only did a 2:27.3 in qualifying and a 2:28.x in the race. The pole time for mx5 cup at Sebring last year was 2:25.6.


Aaron
 
Forgot to look at track records on this site. Only thing I could find was on CFR site. The best time at last March's MX5 Cup race at Sebring was Matt Carter at 2:25.6 vs Kip's 2:22.9 in a car that now has been restricted and is no longer raced in EP. That 2.7 second difference might be ok at Sebring. Did MX5 race at VIR in 2021? If so, lap times? Record there now in EP is 2:01 but that car has been restricted twice since 2019.

Still seems that allowing a single car with keys things not allowed on any other car is outside the philosophy of Production cars.
 
Jim, The driver of the MX5 Global car was a 15 year old young man fresh out of Go carts in what was announced was his first race in a race car. He also ran in T3 in the same car, where he was only able to qualify 4th. I doubt that he had any laps at Sebring. I was in the same run group in a HP car and saw the car on the track several times during the weekend,and the driver was doing a good job, but the car was REALLY fast.
 
david boles":ity12e30 said:
Jim, The driver of the MX5 Global car was a 15 year old young man fresh out of Go carts in what was announced was his first race in a race car. He also ran in T3 in the same car, where he was only able to qualify 4th. I doubt that he had any laps at Sebring. I was in the same run group in a HP car and saw the car on the track several times during the weekend,and the driver was doing a good job, but the car was REALLY fast.
Click to expand...
Also the requestor of the classification letter.

https://www.mx-5cup.com/news/max-opalsk ... cup-season
 
No dog in this fight... but, allowing a sequential tranny with ABS in production is 100% against the class philosophy and it is a very very slippery slope. Hope there are a hundred letters on this one before it matriculates and impacts other races/classes.

No offense to the kid at Sebring, but if an experienced driver of the Preston Pardus caliber was in that car, it would've been a handful of seconds faster...

Maybe this car has a home in GTX :D
 
It is quite easy to look up what Global MX5 Cup did at all of the tracks they attended in 2021, and compare that versus what the EP track records are at those tracks. They're barely faster than a top FP car. Kip's Sebring track record was yes, set in a car that has since received a FPR restrictor. When that was set, it barely beat Ira's 240Z's best lap time, which was still several seconds faster than what a Global MX5 Cup car has ran there.

EP has had a spec line for the 16-19 Global MX5 Cup car since 2019. The only difference between a 2019 MX5 Cup car and a 2022 MX5 Cup car is the addition of the sequential trans. ABS has been there the whole time, as has its stock 182hp engine. It's safe to assume that pretty much any of these that have ran in EP since 2020 have been prepped with that sequential trans, and no one noticed until it actually became legal to its spec line. It's not about class philosophy. It's about allowing a production based car that's prepared to another series, but is otherwise close in scope and how it races and sets a lap-time, an additional place to run/test in SCCA Club Racing. However, that place also doesn't allow it to have the outright ability to set a track record or win the Runoffs on pace ability. Additionally, there are spec line allowances all over Prod that are contrary to the general rules.

I just don't get the outrage. They're multiple seconds off of what a fast EP car would run, and it's not like they get their lap time in some crazy weird fashion that doesn't mesh with how a Prod car runs. To say that because it has a sequential trans as part of its total vehicle package, that you should get one too, is ridiculous. Does that mean you also want to give up the 50-90whp advantage a real EP car has over them, to further complete the total package they have ? Doubtful. Those cars had a 112-113mph trap speed at Sebring, which was the same speed that Kennard's FP car ran, with a bone stock trans. Meanwhile the 2nd place EP finisher ran 121-122mph, and a lap time that was two seconds a lap slower. But the sequential trans is the problem? Keep in mind that if a really good EP car had shown up, it would've ran 3-4 seconds faster than this MX5 Cup did.
 
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