Poll: Alternate Cranks in Prep #2

[KDENNIS]

The Datsun L engines have historically bad cranks, they break right behind #4 Rod.
As long as we are testing the waters here.

 

[Sam Moore]

Hey Kevin, did Nissan make the cranks for a B20 Volvo or did Volvo forge the Nissan cranks??

 

[c mathis]

Sounds like the dreaded rule creep.

 

[Tom Feller]

Gotta vote yes if you said yes to rods.

 

[Al Seim]

I had a Datsun engine blow to bits because of a dropped valve, can we have titanium valves as well?

(In actuality it blew to bits because a dropped valve shattered a cast piston, so I swore off cast pistons, but in the spirit of things I thought I'd ask)

Seriously, you'll find at least one person swearing up and down that any mod you can think of is an absolute necessity to keeping engines together and thus an absolute requirement for a sensible ruleset. Tough to know where to sensibly draw the line but personally I think Ti valves, dry sumps and billet cranks should NOT be allowed, I'm near the center but leaning against on rods, but strongly in favor of forged pistons...

It's a judgement call not a conspiracy, guys.....

 

[mlangley]

Our EP car has 3 seasons on the crank no problems?? Have raced the L series engins since the 80s Except for the harmonic at 8400 the cranks are pretty reliable. Now if you are running 10K plus on a regular basis then they start to get flaky but from what I heard back in the day even the GTU cars had issues with the custom billits above 10K but they were running enduros. Of course I am talking about the L series I dont know about the A series??
I dont see the need for putting more money into the motors it will just drive the cost of racing up more and production is already getting pricy. I for one saw what happened to the old GT class and how a lot of the cars were just updated production cars with a few mods that quickly spiraled out of control to become what it is today. Remember AP and CP became the GT1 and GT2 of today and look what is in them now. We had an old CP Datsun and tried to keep up with the rule changes for GT2 and finally gave up and sold the car due to cost. We do not want to go down that slippery slope.

 

[James Rogerson]

If you put my car on the rack next to R. Weber's or J. Trenery's LBC and a stock LBC, you'll see the huge difference in "rules creep" to allow one group of cars to become GT cars while the other group is pretty much stock.

The constant governing pricipal is air flow and compression matched to weight, tire/wheel size and brakes. The only one I really ever take issue with is brakes and now that almost everything can convert to rear disc it's not as bad as before. However, 40 year old single piston OEM calipers is not smart.

This whole discussion is why people run elsewhere and our fields grow smaller as the older cars and drivers go to the giant barn in the sky. We don't try to include new cars and drivers. The Yaris and Mini are almost singular exceptions.

James R.

 

[Acme Speed Shop]

James the "big barn in the sky" is vintage racing, and it is growing, not dwindling in size. For example you have not seen more than two MGBs racing in the runoffs in the same class in almost 20 years, in my first vintage race, I had 14 cars in my class (EP) and 7 of them were MGBs. I can tell you I will always have a place in my heart for SCCA racing, but what a breath oif fresh air it is to race in type of racing where the rules are not always a moving target. I have no ill reaction to most of the the LBCs getting phased out in SCCA racing, just hopefully you guys have a plan to fill that void. In the late 90s, the the Spridget in one form, or another was the most popular type of car racing at the runoffs, and it was in three classes, GP is now gone, and the Spridget is not "the" car to have in either FP, or HP anymore, so people racing those cars, have either retired from racing, or moved to vintage, I don't see the SCCA ever getting those cars, back, rules changes, or not, the market is gone, the problem is the void has not been filled with other type of cars at the same rate as the Spridgets departed.

Should one allow billet cranks in LP, who knows, a billet crank does not make a engine faster, just more reliable, so who cares. You always hear that rpms is the limiting factor for a given engine and that may be the case, but in most cases it is not rods, or crankshaft, but rather the LP heads, cam, and induction rules are the limiting factor, they will only make power to given rpm, and anything after that is just foolish. On most dyno sheets you see a powerband go up to the redline point, then drop sharply, so reving after that point is counter productive, so items like alternate rods and cranks have no real bearing on engine output, so who cares if someone has them, or not.

 

[kruck]

This whole discussion is why people run elsewhere and our fields grow smaller as the older cars and drivers go to the giant barn in the sky. We don't try to include new cars and drivers. The Yaris and Mini are almost singular exceptions.

I really don't know how or where you guys come up with this stuff. The difference in "perception of reality" of Prod racers really can, at times, be mind boggling.

Highest current Runoffs entries:
SRF - 43
FV - 37
EP - 32
FP - 26
AS - 24
SM - 24
FF - 21
STU - 21
HP - 20

Prod has two of the top four, all three in the top nine, and the two highest "production vehicle based" classes in all of SCCA Club Racing. The national participation numbers for this year will reflect something similar. In EP, 47% have a 1990 model year or later, 61% in FP do, and 20% in HP do. Combine them all, and that's 60% of all entries in a Prod class at this years Runoffs having a 1990 or later model year.

OMG yes, we are obviously doing such a terrible job! What with all of this "balance" and "success" and "close racing" and "stable rules sets"......psssh, to hell with all that! We must start dicking with it, immediately! Quick, call "Captain Knee Jerk" and his trusty side-kicks, "Over-React Boy" and "Short-Sighted Girl"!

Say whatever you want about SCCA Club Racing in general, but I'm sick of people trying to stick it to Prod. Yes, SCCA Club Racing is down across the board, but please try keeping it in perspective, and realize that Prod is doing pretty damn well.




You know, from the way this forum has been acting over for the past couple of weeks, you'd think it was the middle of January and we were all under 2ft of snow. :roll:

Ok, I'll get off my soap box and put down my Prod pom-pom's now.

 

[JessePrather]

This whole discussion is why people run elsewhere and our fields grow smaller as the older cars and drivers go to the giant barn in the sky. We don't try to include new cars and drivers. The Yaris and Mini are almost singular exceptions.

I really don't know how or where you guys come up with this stuff. The difference in "perception of reality" of Prod racers really can, at times, be mind boggling.

Highest current Runoffs entries:
SRF - 43
FV - 37
EP - 32
FP - 26
AS - 24
SM - 24
FF - 21
STU - 21
HP - 20

Prod has two of the top four, all three in the top nine, and the two highest "production vehicle based" classes in all of SCCA Club Racing. The national participation numbers for this year will reflect something similar. In EP, 47% have a 1990 model year or later, 61% in FP do, and 20% in HP do. Combine them all, and that's 60% of all entries in a Prod class at this years Runoffs having a 1990 or later model year.

OMG yes, we are obviously doing such a terrible job! What with all of this "balance" and "success" and "close racing" and "stable rules sets"......psssh, to hell with all that! We must start dicking with it, immediately! Quick, call "Captain Knee Jerk" and his trusty side-kicks, "Over-React Boy" and "Short-Sighted Girl"!

Say whatever you want about SCCA Club Racing in general, but I'm sick of people trying to stick it to Prod. Yes, SCCA Club Racing is down across the board, but please try keeping it in perspective, and realize that Prod is doing pretty damn well.




You know, from the way this forum has been acting over for the past couple of weeks, you'd think it was the middle of January and we were all under 2ft of snow. :roll:

Ok, I'll get off my soap box and put down my Prod pom-pom's now.

:applause:
I agree Kevin! The thing you have to remember is this is the vocal minority forum. Even on this site there are far more lurkers than posters and people who are out racing having a good time and happy with production generally aren't going to post here. Ahhhhh. Reality.
See you next week!