Kerry Foote
Well-known member
Anybody have any experience or information about Nural pistons. I found them while researching pistons for LP engine . Price is resnable but? Here's a link.http://empirebritishcarparts.com/SPRITE ... p2326.html
Nural pistons
- Thread starter Kerry Foote
- Start date
hoffman900
Well-known member
Nural is under the Federal-Mogul umbrella, so I'm sure they're okay.
For those that don't know what Federal-Mogul is, read their Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Mogul
For all:
I've had very good luck with Racetec Pistons (http://racetecpistons.com/):
Here is a custom piston they made for me:
Not sure what their minimum bore size is (they're forgings). Mine was a 90mm bore, but I don't think it's a lot smaller than that (85mm seems to ring a bell).
Diamond Pistons (really top of the line stuff) can do small bores in billet. CP can as well.
Racetec has no minimum order policy. It's just a one time $15 fee if you get less than 4. Diamond has a minimum order of 4 for the initial batch, but will do one from there on out.
I paid about $185 per piston (the fee was split over two pistons, but includes extras like skirt coating and honing the pin bores), which imo, is really reasonable for a custom piston.
As for Racetec, here is how it was explain to me. C(alvert)P(ankl) (CP Pistons) came about when the Calvert brothers left JE (Barry Calvert was part owner with Wayne Brooks). They came from Arias pistons and with Wayne Brooks as owner of JE (who bought JE from Harvey Crane), built up JE to what it is today. When Wayne Brooks retired and Barry Calvert branched off, teamed up with Pankl, and cherry picked the JE staff to form CP pistons to do NASCAR work (which they've since branched out). JE is now held by the same company that owns Wiseco. Wayne now owns Racetec / Autotec pistons which he started up after his non-compete contract was up and got bored of retirement and also cherry picked other JE staff. Randy Gillis who was involved in Ford's NASCAR program when they were using JE is at Racetec/Autotec. He has some interesting things to say about dyno testing they did with mirrored reverse domes vs. spherical dishes.
Before having a piston designed, call up Total Seal rings and talk with Keith Jones. Total Seal has some really trick light/thin ring packages and now will cut (for a fee) their second rings to a modern Napier hook style (less friction and does a better job of oil control, so the top ring can be of even less tension. Used by most OEMs now). They do and make A LOT more than their Gapless set-up, and offer less friction doing so. Once the rings are picked out, then call up your piston manufacturer. You can get really trick with the piston pin too (DLC coated tool steel $$$$), depending on how much you want to spend.
For my application. I talked with Total Seal, picked out a ring package. I then sent that information to Racetec, sent a Wiseco piston I had, a mold, lots of information / measurements, and told them "I need this, this is what I have / is available, move the top ring up as high as you safely can, and make it better".
Hope this helps someone.
Cheers,
Bob
For those that don't know what Federal-Mogul is, read their Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Mogul
For all:
I've had very good luck with Racetec Pistons (http://racetecpistons.com/):
Here is a custom piston they made for me:
Not sure what their minimum bore size is (they're forgings). Mine was a 90mm bore, but I don't think it's a lot smaller than that (85mm seems to ring a bell).
Diamond Pistons (really top of the line stuff) can do small bores in billet. CP can as well.
Racetec has no minimum order policy. It's just a one time $15 fee if you get less than 4. Diamond has a minimum order of 4 for the initial batch, but will do one from there on out.
I paid about $185 per piston (the fee was split over two pistons, but includes extras like skirt coating and honing the pin bores), which imo, is really reasonable for a custom piston.
As for Racetec, here is how it was explain to me. C(alvert)P(ankl) (CP Pistons) came about when the Calvert brothers left JE (Barry Calvert was part owner with Wayne Brooks). They came from Arias pistons and with Wayne Brooks as owner of JE (who bought JE from Harvey Crane), built up JE to what it is today. When Wayne Brooks retired and Barry Calvert branched off, teamed up with Pankl, and cherry picked the JE staff to form CP pistons to do NASCAR work (which they've since branched out). JE is now held by the same company that owns Wiseco. Wayne now owns Racetec / Autotec pistons which he started up after his non-compete contract was up and got bored of retirement and also cherry picked other JE staff. Randy Gillis who was involved in Ford's NASCAR program when they were using JE is at Racetec/Autotec. He has some interesting things to say about dyno testing they did with mirrored reverse domes vs. spherical dishes.
Before having a piston designed, call up Total Seal rings and talk with Keith Jones. Total Seal has some really trick light/thin ring packages and now will cut (for a fee) their second rings to a modern Napier hook style (less friction and does a better job of oil control, so the top ring can be of even less tension. Used by most OEMs now). They do and make A LOT more than their Gapless set-up, and offer less friction doing so. Once the rings are picked out, then call up your piston manufacturer. You can get really trick with the piston pin too (DLC coated tool steel $$$$), depending on how much you want to spend.
For my application. I talked with Total Seal, picked out a ring package. I then sent that information to Racetec, sent a Wiseco piston I had, a mold, lots of information / measurements, and told them "I need this, this is what I have / is available, move the top ring up as high as you safely can, and make it better".
Hope this helps someone.
Cheers,
Bob
Sterling
Well-known member
Right, did that.
Picked ring package and Total Seal gave me the ring specs. Pistons were then made to the specs and all was well.
Ordered exact same set of ring from Total Seal a year later for next motor. Rings were different enough that they would not go in the bore. (Cut into piston not deep enough so they protruded.)
Total Seal tried to blame piston manufacture. TS was flat fricking wrong and TS was doing nothing more than re-boxing other peoples rings. TS would not admit their mistake. Total BS from TS. Not impressed.
Picked ring package and Total Seal gave me the ring specs. Pistons were then made to the specs and all was well.
Ordered exact same set of ring from Total Seal a year later for next motor. Rings were different enough that they would not go in the bore. (Cut into piston not deep enough so they protruded.)
Total Seal tried to blame piston manufacture. TS was flat fricking wrong and TS was doing nothing more than re-boxing other peoples rings. TS would not admit their mistake. Total BS from TS. Not impressed.
hoffman900
Well-known member
Sterling":1me3mhuj said:
I believe Total Seal reboxes some, makes others makes others in their line.
Mahle (Perfect Circle) and Hastings are pretty much the only two making rings in the USA. Anything you get is probably going to be one or the other.
Nippon and Total Seal have .8mm rings available in small bore sizes for the dry sump guys who can get crankcase vacuum. Even the A-Series guys are there:
http://www.bwrperformance.com/a-series-all.html
Most would be surprised to know how much is 'reboxed' or how few companies are actually making cores and forgings (from which everyone buys).
Acme Speed Shop
Well-known member
Nural and AE are the same product, County also make the 9.7 to 1 1275 piston with a better ring set and they are only $240ish a set, same exact piston as Nural, as far as how it is made. Call me, I'll sell you either set and ship them to you for only 7.95 shipping.
Matt Brannon
Well-known member
I supply Nural as a quality aftermarket street piston for the ancient Fiats we support.
Good enough stuff, under the AE / Fed Mog umbrella. Steel banded and all. But I've only
ever seen cast pistons in their catalog and can't imagine they offer a forged solution.
Are you considering cast pistons for a race mill? :shock:
-M
Good enough stuff, under the AE / Fed Mog umbrella. Steel banded and all. But I've only
ever seen cast pistons in their catalog and can't imagine they offer a forged solution.
Are you considering cast pistons for a race mill? :shock:
-M
Acme Speed Shop
Well-known member
Matt Brannon":2zg2pfxs said:
Matt, a lot of LP Spridget 1275 guys run the 9.7 to 1 cast pistons, it is sturdy piston and holds up well to this sort of race application, cons are it is mostly ran in press fit application which makes servicing the engine during rebuild/refresh/repair a major PITA, but they cost way less than forged pistons, so some guys exercise this route for the cost savings. I have customers that go this route, as well as the custom forged piston route. They are really not any compromise in HP with the cast piston, just less serviceable than a floating forged piston. Also the cast piston use thicker rings. There is another AE piston out there as well that does have thinner ring pack, but they start to flirt with the cost of custom forged pistons. Dealing with all this now for 10 year or so, I think if guys go ahead and dedicate to the forged piston and floating pin, they will save money in the long run, and now with alternate rods allowed, this will further lessen the desire to use these cast pistons, because with their rather decent size slipper, and short pin it makes it a little interesting to convert to a floating pin with this piston, not to say it can't be done, but it start to border on insanity on not just going ahead and getting forged piston and now alternate rods.
For the longest time, the AE 21253 was the go to piston for the 9.7 to 1 1275 piston, however these days County also makes them as well, we find County piston to have a better rings stack and be consistent in weight, overall a better product than Nural/AE . I also use this piston often for street performance 1275 builds, it's easy way to get the 1275 to 10.0 to 1 for the street.