November 2021 Fastrack
- Thread starter Greg Amy
- Start date
Chris Schaafsma
Well-known member
LOL.
Steve trying to get a fair shake on the 1500 Spit.
Clearly that manifold is holding the car back.
Back to looking for a few seconds….
Steve trying to get a fair shake on the 1500 Spit.
Clearly that manifold is holding the car back.
Back to looking for a few seconds….
Protech Racing
Well-known member
Funny that the Toyota RWD gets less weight than the FWD.
Mike, I think you have that backwards...I was more curious why they were limited to 13" wheels.Protech Racing":28vuzi5a said:
Not Prod-related, but notice that some TCR cars got dropped into GT3...but are limited to 200TW tires? That SCCA club racing cherry just got popped...
Protech Racing
Well-known member
Right are U.
200TW tires?? They are alll gunna fly off of the flat Earth and Die.
200TW tires?? They are alll gunna fly off of the flat Earth and Die.
Jonathan Spiegel
Well-known member
TCR to GT3 - no dog in this fight, but...
Let's put cars that weigh 1000 lbs more, with stock suspension geometry, and ****** *****, into a class with full race, tube frame cars on full slicks, they said. It'll be fun, they said. :think:
I only have two questions:
What could possibly go wrong?
Can I have some of what they're smoking?
Let's put cars that weigh 1000 lbs more, with stock suspension geometry, and ****** *****, into a class with full race, tube frame cars on full slicks, they said. It'll be fun, they said. :think:
I only have two questions:
What could possibly go wrong?
Can I have some of what they're smoking?
Aaron Johnson
Well-known member
jcspiegel":7vdvd80b said:
Have you seen an rs3 lms car? I’d put it up against any current gt3 car!
Matt Blehm
Moderator
Why not put them in T1 or T2 instead? more fitting of a street tire car with "bolt ons" than GT3...
I see the slide starting..
I see the slide starting..
Well, purely winter speculation of course...but given that GT3 is one of the club's long-time fav classes, and given its flagging numbers (it was in the lowest quntile of Majors particiation in 2021), and given how well the STO-->GT2 consolidation has revived that class (witness an "STO" car winning the Nat'l chmapionships a few times)...well, hey, just speculating.Matt93SE":y9p7s9bf said:
And given recent social media discussions about how the STAC/CRB is really effing up STU's rulesets such that it is minimizing the distinctions between itself and other classes...you know, kinda like with GT3...well, hey, just speculating.
How 'bout them Mets, this year, huh?
Matt Blehm
Moderator
Sorry, I don't pay much attention to foosball teams.Greg Amy":2banwmcm said:
but yeah, I was poking that bear quite a bit in the STU discussion. I just want the targets to stop moving. Spent $15k in go faster parts on my STU car last year and I'm 50hp below the curve. Gonna have to do it again if I want to keep up with the target, and these engines are already about as reliable as an FP Miata with stock rods and oiling.
I honestly don't see a TON of difference between a front running STU car and a GT3 in the performance envelope. ya tube frames and all that. Given the low participation in GT3 and the relatively low in STU, I am envisioning the eventual merge. I really wish both classes were more healthy in participation- well frankly ALL the classes- but we live in an imperfect world.
Aaron Johnson
Well-known member
Matt93SE":1sirewl9 said:
I would say a tcr car is way more than a street car with bolt ons.
https://ascrusa.com/rs3lms.php
Protech Racing
Well-known member
TCR ( on 200TW) at WRL race went about 2:28 at Sebring. Pro TCR goes about 2:17-2:19 on slicks.
GT3 went about 2:26. Should go about 222. IMHO.
WE have so few GT3 cars that who cares? The slick tired classes are in decline for sure. HP is strongish as IT has faded .
100or 200 TW make some much sense from a straight logic point . Cuts the tire bill in half or better. The delta from new to cords is way less .
I hope that the CRB gives weight allowances to more cars on ****** *****. 100, or 200 TW is the future. Seems like the few that are hard opposed have plenty of money to burn on rubber. But as we get older, we simply want to race with even cars on reasonable tires.
GT3 went about 2:26. Should go about 222. IMHO.
WE have so few GT3 cars that who cares? The slick tired classes are in decline for sure. HP is strongish as IT has faded .
100or 200 TW make some much sense from a straight logic point . Cuts the tire bill in half or better. The delta from new to cords is way less .
I hope that the CRB gives weight allowances to more cars on ****** *****. 100, or 200 TW is the future. Seems like the few that are hard opposed have plenty of money to burn on rubber. But as we get older, we simply want to race with even cars on reasonable tires.
Mike - do you have any credible data source proving your generalization that slick classes are in decline? I would think that if 100 TW and 200 TW really were the future as you claim, that the main tire players in American sports car racing (ie. Hoosier and Goodyear) would have those offerings. They do not. Brand X that you are promoting has little to no history in supporting club racers. Both Hoosier and Goodyear significantly support SCCA and club racing in general, and we all should be grateful for the support they offer. You are more than willing to run whatever tire you want within the class' ruleset, but please do not promote a ruleset change that undermines significant supporters of the club. This is not a time to bite the hand that feeds us...
I stand corrected then... But, aren't those marketed towards track day-ers and auto crossers and not club racers?
Matt Blehm
Moderator
Sure. Because "club racers" don't currently run 200TW tires. They run DOT-Rs or slicks, so those marketing ****** ***** don't knock on the door.Stiner0931":34yq1bn2 said:
Hoosier doesn't offer anything like that because they do RACE tires, not ****** *****. it's not their market and they've chosen to stay out of it.
Note GY offers 100 and 200TW versions of the "supercarF1" and Conti has a 200TW tire as well. That's in addition to the 'new' Eagle RS DOT radial.
The groups that currently do the 200TW thing are the endurance series like WRL, AER, Lemons, Chump, etc. Oh and Gridlife, which is growing ridiculously quickly with its simple ruleset and close racing.
Then add the thousands of track day bros who buy tires every few weekends and the market for a 200TW tire is way larger than a Hoosier DOT or slick.
Graphic source: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/artic ... ers-guide/
All that said, no club racer wants to go slower, so it's going to be a hard sell to any who want to be up front. There will be a handful that would jump on a weight break and cheaper tire bandwagon, but many/ most will not and will choose to spend more money on rubber and stay fast.
Personally, I'm ambivalent. I don't get to race enough and my Hoosiers rot in the garage vs. heat cycle out. a hot DOT tire will do the same, and I'll still find myself buying tires just as often.
Not taking a position on any specific issue, but:
As a racer, I don't want to go slower than my competition but would be perfectly happy to give up 0.1g cornering and braking if that applied to everyone and it saved a lot on tires.
Put another way, my car didn't really feel faster going from DOT IT tires to slicks, nor was it any more fun to drive, even as the lap times dropped by a couple of seconds.
IF it were as simple as push a button and we are all on 200TW tires with no modifications required and no change to competitive balance, I'd be strongly in favor of pushing that button. It's NOT that simple, but I wish it were. I love Prod but hate paying $250 for a tire that is toast after one weekend sprint racing.
Decades ago I was around FF in the UK and less so the US - the racing in the UK was on rock hard Dunlop treaded tires and was every bit as good as the racing in the same cars on slicks in the US. Probably better.
As a racer, I don't want to go slower than my competition but would be perfectly happy to give up 0.1g cornering and braking if that applied to everyone and it saved a lot on tires.
Put another way, my car didn't really feel faster going from DOT IT tires to slicks, nor was it any more fun to drive, even as the lap times dropped by a couple of seconds.
IF it were as simple as push a button and we are all on 200TW tires with no modifications required and no change to competitive balance, I'd be strongly in favor of pushing that button. It's NOT that simple, but I wish it were. I love Prod but hate paying $250 for a tire that is toast after one weekend sprint racing.
Decades ago I was around FF in the UK and less so the US - the racing in the UK was on rock hard Dunlop treaded tires and was every bit as good as the racing in the same cars on slicks in the US. Probably better.
Good summary Matt. Sorry, I should have specified 15" or smaller with my comment. Some companies still have a 15", but the big 4 players in the industry (Michelin, Bridgestone, Goodyear, Conti) don't have that size in their 200 TW line. Only in the 40 or 60 TW racing tire. Same goes true for 13".
Al - the problem is with the small rim sizes that we use in prod, there are little to no options on the market with 200 TW, and with the automotive industry going to bigger and bigger rim sizes, there won't be any new tires developed for small rim sizes.
Al - the problem is with the small rim sizes that we use in prod, there are little to no options on the market with 200 TW, and with the automotive industry going to bigger and bigger rim sizes, there won't be any new tires developed for small rim sizes.