Protech Racing
Well-known member
What would you think about, if you took the slower HP cars ,added DOT tires and ran them in ITC class?
How about the LBC in ITC??
- Thread starter Protech Racing
- Start date
Matt Brannon
Well-known member
Funny, that's where the 1500cc Fiat X1/9 was originally classed, in SSC and ITC.
A number of other H competitors will tell you that SSB / ITB are where their cars came from.
-M
A number of other H competitors will tell you that SSB / ITB are where their cars came from.
-M
Dayle Frame
Well-known member
So demote my car to regional status? REALLY?? What'll that accomplish other than pissing off a while bunch of us?
I see LBC's and other HP roadsters in ITC and ITD cars already. Any IT car that's classed in prod can run in 'as is'.
Maybe I'm missing your point.
Dayle
I see LBC's and other HP roadsters in ITC and ITD cars already. Any IT car that's classed in prod can run in 'as is'.
Maybe I'm missing your point.
Dayle
David Kicak
Well-known member
Dayle Frame":3jzlm0r4 said:
Just because someone chooses to run " National" events does not mean that they are really competitive in their car / class. Do away with the regional / national thing for starters it's really past it's time. So Dayle what if I just raced Nationals and always qualified last & finished at the bottom in most every event do I truely have a National caliber car ? Lets admit it a lot of car/driver combinations at this recent runoffs should not have been there as in years past. Not everyone in attendence is the "cream of the crop" or best in their division. (only in their own neighborhood) So go for it and reclass these cars and get them out racing instead of collecting dust (like mine) and do away with the national / regional division and combine both.
Protech Racing":3l4h0j3r said:
1. It's not simply a matter of adding DOT tires. Fender flares, alternate brakes. no windshields, suspension prep rules far beyond IT prep.
2. In the past, the members of the IT Advisory Committee have expressed their desire to be 'Skippys' and keep the BMC cars out of IT through uncompetitiveness as some personal vendetta.
3. The "faster" HP cars were the same frontrunners in ITC. The bump down accomplishes what, exactly?
4. The 1275 MG was originally a "ITD" car and was bumped up to "ITC" without change. It may be different in other areas of the country, but ITC is DEAD in my area.
5. despite some of the whinging, H Prod is finally holding its own as a class. Could it be better? yes. Is it stronger than it was? also yes.
Matt Blehm
Moderator
This is simplifying things a LOT, but what's the performance difference between a Prod car and an IT car once you take away really sticky tires? the cornering and braking advantages are much reduced at this point. Yes there's still the advantage of greatly modified suspension, power, transmissions, less weight etc.. but OK..
Say the car raced in ITC in IT trim and HP in Prod trim.. If you want to run a Prod car with DOTs, then race it in ITA or ITS where the power/weight ratio is a closer match to the other cars in the class and it's got a bit of a handicap due to the more advanced suspension/transmission.
When the HP guys (Eichelberger is the first name I think of) show up here, I *barely* pull them on the straights and they leave me in the corners- as an LP car should. However, I run times right there with the fast ITA/ITS cars (my car is barely past ITS prep)..
I doubt IT is going to be overwhelmed with old British cars to the point that the local guys quit showing up. Yeah, it's a square peg in a round hole, but if it gets these cars back on track and they're not hurting anyone, why the heck not?
Say the car raced in ITC in IT trim and HP in Prod trim.. If you want to run a Prod car with DOTs, then race it in ITA or ITS where the power/weight ratio is a closer match to the other cars in the class and it's got a bit of a handicap due to the more advanced suspension/transmission.
When the HP guys (Eichelberger is the first name I think of) show up here, I *barely* pull them on the straights and they leave me in the corners- as an LP car should. However, I run times right there with the fast ITA/ITS cars (my car is barely past ITS prep)..
I doubt IT is going to be overwhelmed with old British cars to the point that the local guys quit showing up. Yeah, it's a square peg in a round hole, but if it gets these cars back on track and they're not hurting anyone, why the heck not?
Stan Clayton
New member
Do you mean this literally, and if so, where can I find this in the GCR. I'm not being snarky, either. I am genuinely interested as I have an ITC Datsun 510 I'm resurrecting, and being able to run it in HP as a level two car would be an excellent and inexpensive way to get started if it can be done "as is". Thanks, StanDayle Frame":3tc3qmn3 said:
Protech Racing
Well-known member
I tossed this out after looking at the lap times of the cars. Taking away the slicks may put most of the small ish engined car right in the middle of the ITC group. The ITC is very small and may like the new cars , may not I really dont know.
My ONLY thoguht/ hope was to maybe get more parked cars back on the track.
Regional only of course./ dual listing. "Add Dot tires and 50# run ITC"
As far as running the ITC car in HP, check the rules . There are some that can run the stock tank, with the stock rear bumper. I dont think that the Datsun is one of the cars.
If you are near me, Tampa, I have a spare 8gal cell.
MM
My ONLY thoguht/ hope was to maybe get more parked cars back on the track.
Regional only of course./ dual listing. "Add Dot tires and 50# run ITC"
As far as running the ITC car in HP, check the rules . There are some that can run the stock tank, with the stock rear bumper. I dont think that the Datsun is one of the cars.
If you are near me, Tampa, I have a spare 8gal cell.
MM
Stan Clayton
New member
Thanks Mike. I sent an email in asking for clarification. I also sent you a PM about the cell. Cheers! StanProtech Racing":1mw3fsxy said:
racingspridget
Well-known member
There is a very basic problem with the rules between any IT car and any Prod car. IT rules require the cage to only attach ( touch) the chassis at 6 points and no part of the cage may penetrate the firewall. Prod car rules require braces extending forward to protect the drivers feet. I believe these must extend through the firewall.
Stan Clayton
New member
Ah, good catch about the forward braces...thanks! From the Prod cage rules: "There shall be two (2) braces extending forward from the front hoop to protect the driver’s legs. It is recommended that this bracing extend to the bulkhead in front of the driver’s feet; but, in any case, it shall be integrated into the frame or chassis to provide substantial support for the front hoop."racingspridget":1qqcweov said:
OTOH, your comment about IT cages is not quite correct. From 9.4.E.1., "Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, B-Spec AND Touring classes–The roll cage must attach to the vehicle structure within the passenger compartment in a minimum of 6 points and a maximum of 8 points as specified in these rules."
The Prod cage rules appear to permit the forward brace to end at the firewall (the bulkhead in front of the driver’s feet), while the IT cage rules permit 8 points (my car has only six currently), so it looks to me that I can add forward braces to the firewall and cover both Prod and IT requirements.
That look reasonable?
We had this same situation come up at the Runoffs. A SM was being run as FP and it did not have the foot protection bars. They added the bars and ran.
Also, dual braking systems are required in production but not in IT. Scattershields are recommended in IT but required in Production where the failure would endanger the driver.
Not sure why anyone would want to jump back to ITC. The car count for ITC is less than 1 car per race in the county this year while HP is almost 1.5 per race, or 85 more HP than ITC so far.
For instance, at the upcoming SIC here in SEDiv, we have 8 HP cars entered but only 3 ITC.
Also, dual braking systems are required in production but not in IT. Scattershields are recommended in IT but required in Production where the failure would endanger the driver.
Not sure why anyone would want to jump back to ITC. The car count for ITC is less than 1 car per race in the county this year while HP is almost 1.5 per race, or 85 more HP than ITC so far.
For instance, at the upcoming SIC here in SEDiv, we have 8 HP cars entered but only 3 ITC.
Stan Clayton
New member
Exactly, Jim. Out here in San Francisco Region we did not have a single ITC entry our entire 12-race season. Not one. And anyway, I'd rather do something that helps one of the National Classes.FP Racer":ucv6j3oh said:
James Wiley
Well-known member
Having converted an ITD/ITC Spridget to HP a few years back, a fuel cell was required (we already had one installed), front cage braces had to be added to the firewall in the footwells, and scattershield put in. HP allows cams other than stock, IT doesn't. Couldn't catch the fast IT Hondas then, still can't catch the fast HP Hondas now. Dang.
That being said, I'm not sure why ITC seems to be disappearing, but it certainly has declined at the races I've attended in SEDIV. Since HP routinely runs in the same group with ITC, why not just enter the same car in both classes? Twice the money, same amount of fun!
James Wiley
#72 HP Midget
That being said, I'm not sure why ITC seems to be disappearing, but it certainly has declined at the races I've attended in SEDIV. Since HP routinely runs in the same group with ITC, why not just enter the same car in both classes? Twice the money, same amount of fun!
James Wiley
#72 HP Midget