Automatic Accusump

D

Dayle Frame

Well-known member
I'm trying to diagnose an Accusump issue with a friend of mine. Here are the details.

The system is set up to open the valve when the pressure is low and close it when the motor is running. But the pressure guage on the Accusump never moves. Maybe the valve isn't working, maybe ita not getting voltage, maybe the sensor is shot and it's not telling the valve to open or close. I dunno. This is an LP motor on a Fiat X1/9 and I have no experience with these critters. Maybe these motors need it....maybe not.

There is a pressure sensor and an electric valve in the oil line going to the Accusump. The sensors has a single wire going to it. When checked, it has 8.4VDC going to with with the wire disconnected. When we apaplied 12VDC to the valve, we can hear it making noise so we assume it is working. We applied some air pressure to the Accusump (30psi) but after a few minutes, it bled off to zero. With the motor running, the Accusump never gains any pressure. It starts at zero and it stays there.

1. Should there be voltage to the sensor? If so, how much? 8.4 sounds like something's amiss.....bad ground, etc.
2. Should the Accusump hold air pressure when static (motor not running)?
3. With the motor running, shouldn't the Accusump read the same pressure as the motor?

I had one of these on my car when I first got it. But it had a manual valve. I didn't think I needed it so I took it off. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the subject.

Dayle
 
Dayle..........the best product on earth, you should install yours again if for no other reason than you get +3 quarts oil in the system and pressure protection for quite a while if you break a line or cooler. NO downside, other than a few pounds of aluminum and oil on the floorboard.
 
Dayle, the wire should have 12v(switched) when on. That is a solenoid the opens when on. Operates same as the mechanical one otherwise. The solenoid is there instead of the manual valve.
 
I leave mine open all of the time. But not the 3qt.
I use a custom, 50$, 1.5- 2qt version. You check the oil at high idle. Works fine but low tech
 
loopracing said:
Dayle, the wire should have 12v(switched) when on. That is a solenoid the opens when on. Operates same as the mechanical one otherwise. The solenoid is there instead of the manual valve.
Click to expand...

That's what's odd. It has a sensor and a seperate valve. I assume the sensor signal goes to the valve and tells the valve to open or close. But there is no wire from the sensor to the valve. All the wires disappear into a wire loom and I havn't chased them down yet.

8.4VDC tells me something isn't right. But I'm not an electrician so I don't know what.

If it were up to me, I'd ditch the electrics and make it a manual valve. But that would require moving the unit so it's within arms reach while belted in.

Dayle
 
You can leave it open, out of reach.
If you want to check the oil, rev it up to 40# pressure, shut it off, check the oil,, but other than that, you can leave it open.

I get the oil level right on the stick, @ oil change , mark the stick engine off but filter filled.
Than I can check it engine running @ 40psi, check the stick. It then reads about 1/2 qt low.
 
8.4 vdc could be voltage with solenoid energized due to high resistance coil.

If the valve opens at low pressure and closes at high pressure, how/when does the unit ever recharge? Does it empty completely with the engine off? How do you pre-oil a cold engine? (the biggest advantage of these units in my opinion, as 90% of bearing scuffing is due to cold starts)

With unit empty, unit should have some pre-charge (up to 1/2 normal operating oil pressure) to assure piston has bottomed at oil end. Must know position of piston.

RJS
 
Dayle, from your description it is unclear if you have one or more issues at the same time.

The pressure not building when running sticks out as an issue. Even with the power off from the valve, the pressure should build. Having the electic valve open should cause oil under pressure return to the engine if needed, but the pressure should not go down with the power removed.

Once a year, or after any big mechanical issues, I disassemble my accumump tank to clean, remove any condensation that has built up and check the o-ring seals for the piston. The tank then needs to be refilled and pressurized under a specific sequence. First set the piston to approximately 2/3 down the tank (away from the inlet/outlet). Fill with oil with the tank verticle and the pressure gauge down. I do this with the end cap that holds the valve off then I screw the end cap on after it is full. You have to be careful if using a vice on the tank that you do not distort the tank by over squeezing it. With both end caps on and the tank filled 2/3rds with oil you can then pressurize the end that has the pressure gauge through the schreader valve. You want to pressurize to approximate engine operating pressure.

If oil is released from the inlet valve when you add air pressure then the valve is bad. Although the cleaning and resetting is a pain, it is the only way to be sure the piston is not frozen and that it travels correctly with no debris present. You will always find some condensation around the piston from temperature differential. Every couple weekends you can warm up the engine then release all the pressurized oil from the accusump back into the engine. After all pressure has bled off restart the engine and let the oil system recharge the accusump at idle. This practice helps minimize condensation buildup in the accusump.

Finally, you do want to be sure there is a on-way tee valve so that the pressurized oil that is released by the accusump flows the normal direction through the filter, cooler then to the bearings. If the plumbing is missing this check valve, the oil can shortcut and flow back through the pump. I'm not sure of the exact voltage need for the valve, but if the system is 12V you would want to fix any connections or switches to ensure you are getting 12V.
 
My Accusump came with an electric solenoid that opened when the ignition was on and closed when it was off. The problem is if there is any question as to whether it is working you end up putting in a mechanical valve to be sure, so I ditched the solenoid and added a cable to the mechanical valve so I didn't have to relocate it.

I agree with Ron, the best part of having one of these is that you start the engine with full oil pressure. Leaving the valve open doesn't sound like a good idea because you would dump all that oil into the crankcase, in my case 3 quarts. Then you have no idea what you have for oil level before you start it up, and have to check the level while it is running? You can do that? I can't.

Dayle - Put it back in. I was uncovering the pick-up on one of the trick oil pans about 6 times a lap before I made my own oil pan. The oil light would come on but the Accusump kept the bearings oiled and I had zero wear. They work. But my advice is keep it simple.

Also, the people at Canton are very helpful and you can have the tank rebuilt for about $30 IIRC.
 
I installed a switch on the dash with a pilot light when it is OFF. When you run the engine with it off, it just takes in oil until it is full and will not return any to the engine. Been working trouble free for many seasons now.
 
X2 on Ron's cable idea. Jesse turned me on to the remote cable for the manual valve and it is a cool solution. Simple and fool proof.
 
The valve should not be opening and closing while the engine is running. Once the engine is running it should stay open until the power is turned off.

In the big scheme of things, I wish that I had done a custom oil pan and accusump instead of dry sump for my little GT car. Lots less expensive and complicated. Of course, the problem was ground clearance.
 
Lots of good ideas here, but the issue is that there is some sort of pressure leak in the internal chamber.

These are just a round threaded aluminum tube with a sliding plate w/O-ring around its circumference moving back and forth in the middle, with oil on one side and air on the other.

The sump should initially set up dry with about 5-10lbs of air pressure in the air side to push the piston fully toward the oil end. When the engine is running, engine oil pressure will force oil into the cylinder, pushing the piston inward toward the air side. The pressure gauge on the air side will read whatever operating pressure the oil pump can provide, plus the inital air pressure charge amount.

If a slow leak is present in the O-ring of the piston, oil will slowly creep past the plate into the air side, equalizing pressure and acting like the sump is dead, with or without the valve open.

if a slow leak is present in the air side, say at the release/drain valve or gauge, pressure will slowly bleed, and every time the engine is started, the piston is pushed farther and farther into the cylinder to the point where no pressure difference can be sustained, and again, sump looks like it's dead, but it's really full of oil with no pressure on the air side of the plate.

The sump can be disassembled by unthreading the end caps and pushing the piston out to inspect the seal. it is really pretty simple.


-M
 
My home built accumulators are vertical tanks, no pistons.( Moroso is selling these again). It works the same way but gets rid of the fancy stuff.( downside is that it wont work inverted:) ) That is why I leave it open all of the time. The capacity is about 1.5-2 qts. Just enough to keep oil pressure for about 10secs with the pickup dry or the engine not running. I use the pictured one on my Chumpcar turbo.
If you have a dry spell , it should be less than 10sec. More total volume of oil allows the oil tank to act as a cooler also. If the tank gets hot, than you know that it is working and that the pickup is going dry .

The sump is working if , when you shut it off the oil pressure stays up . 2qts might be 10sec, 3 qts might be 20sec.

http://gallery.oracool.net/v/album82/protech/Cheaps/snakeoiler+003.jpg.html.
You can run a boring bar/hone up the pipe to tidy up the inside. The caps come off to clean. Simple , effective. cheap.
 
Two coments on this. 1. The air presure will equlize withthe oil prerssure not be additive. 2. I don't think this will happen with oil but we plumbers use to ues an chamber like Mike is to stop water hammer. They now have an air bladder because the water would eventually saturate the air and "lock" it up so they would have to be drained and replenished with air. I doubt oil will satuate air but leave that confirmation to others who understand better than I. Opening it up periodically shoud solve that if it did.
 
Is this the sensor / valve combination you have?

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The sensor has 2 1/4" quick-connect terminals, they should be wired like this:

Sensor terminal 1: +12 volts (through a switched 3 Amp circuit)
Sensor terminal 2: connected to one of the black wires on the valve (the silver can)

The valve has 2 black wires coming out if it.

Wire 1 goes to Sensor terminal 2 as stated above
Wire 2 goes to chassis ground

If this is how you are set up, and you are seeing less than 12 volts out of the valve-side of the sensor when 12 volts is applied to the other side (and there is no pressure in the line), then you need a new coil for the valve.

I called Canton about the exact same problem, where I was only seeing ~8.5 volts through the sensor. This was a couple of months ago. As it turns out, I was the 3rd call they received that week, and they had never heard of the problem before. Long story short: They were aware of the problem and working on a solution. Two weeks later they contacted me and sent me a new coil for the valve, free of charge. The fix was very easy, taking less time for me to complete than it took to write this response (and I type fast).

So, put +12 volts to one side of the sensor and measure the output on the other side. If it is less than 12 volts, that is very likely your issue.

Canton's number is 203.481.9460
 
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