Any one here grind cams?

P

Protech Racing

Well-known member
I am looking for a new cam grinder. I have a design that has proven to work and can get my own blanks. Any leads appreciated. Thanks,MM
 
You have a valve lift and duration (at ? lift) that works and need someone to design a lobe?

Depending on who designs it (not many actual lobe designs left, at least available to amateur racers), the duration values may be smaller or larger below or above your target. If you're looking to just have a copy made, there are places that do that, but any imperfections are just going to be magnified. I know Delta copies camshaft lobes to make masters, but again, that means they don't know what the derivatives are and imperfections are magnified through. You can ask for .350 lobe lift and 268 @ .050 and end up with a lobe copied off some Chevy cam in 1982.

Have you talked to someone like Mike Jones? http://jonescams.com/

Andrews can probably design and make you a master, just would have to find someone to grind it (I think they can, but not sure on volume): https://www.andrewsproducts.com/automot ... capability

There is always Billy Godbold at Comp, but a racer I linked them up with had a hard time getting any response back from them. Billy is their designer, so I imagine he is busy with NASCAR, IMSA, NHRA, WoO, etc. applications.

Danny Crower will do welding. Mostly powersports, but does automotive stuff: https://danielcrowerracing.com/c-142103 ... nding.html. Mike Jones sends anyone who wants welded lobes to him, as he has strong opinions on Web's quality and they both go back to 1980s / 90s Indy Cars.

There is Megacycle as well. I could never get past Barbara and I'm not sure who is even designing their lobes anymore. Jimmy has to be getting up their in age too. They bought all of Integral's masters when Steve Gruenwald (spl) sold. Jesse Prather might have an in with them.

LSM is an option. I know someone who had a bad experience in getting custom cam cores made (they eventually showed up) so tread lightly: http://www.lsmeng.com/

A design and master is going to probably cost $600+ per lobe design, so this will get pricy fast.

Most outfits are just going to go through their catalogue and copy and paste something from some other application. It might work but not be "maximized" and it could be a design from 40+ years ago.
 
Thanks Bob,
I have a design and a cam that works. I simply need it copied/cut on blanks that I can also supply.
I have been dealing with the same grinder for 12yrs with good results. This time it has taken 12 weeks to get 4 cams cut and they lied to me as to status a couple of times.
I will poke around with the names tossed .
Thanks to all.
 
If you have a cam that they can profile the guys at Delta in Tacoma WA can knock them out in a couple of days.
 
I used to have my own a repair shop right in front of Quantity Machine here in Medford, OR. Anyway we would do a lot of cam work and kept tabs on what the machine shop was doing as it was just two steps away. In the late 90's - early 2000's Delta cams would almost always screw it up in one way or another. We would spec a cam and pay... then the cam would come in with something different than what was agreed on. My personal drag car roller regrind was spec'ed at 108 lc the sales guy agreed and it came back done with 114 lc! They would always say "try it." Well the customer didn't ask for a "try it" cam. When degreed in, not only was the cam card off of what we specified, but at times the cam lobe would not even match the card. So we got smart and moved on. This wasn't a one time deal, repeatedly. Maybe in 15 years they got better? Hopefully they did because they sure couldn't get much worse. Just plain sloppy. The fact they they mostly copy others lobe designs says a lot about how their work is done in my opinion. I notice though a lot of people who recommend them never double check their work either. The machine shop would use them after a while for budget rebuilder engine but nothing that mattered performance wise. Schneider cams has given me the best service and when they mess up they admit it and make it right. My last cam was from Web and they have good customer service too.
 
I know someone who has struggled with lobe to lobe consistency with Web as well. Everyone should be checking all the lobes, imo.
 
Interesting that you had so many problems with Delta. I have been using them since the mid 90s with no issues.
 
That's kinda scary about lobe to lobe consistency. It never occurred to me that this was something that warranted checking on each lobe of each cam, and I'm a fairly obsessive "checker"!
 
Al Seim":2i6qik3t said:
That's kinda scary about lobe to lobe consistency. It never occurred to me that this was something that warranted checking on each lobe of each cam, and I'm a fairly obsessive "checker"!
Click to expand...

It's been a thing forever!

A friend in the 1960s use to buy (aftermarket) camshafts 5 at a time and degree all the lobes. He kept the ones that had the best consistency across the lobes and sold the rest. These were Runoffs pole winning engines in the 1960s and would have won a few if it weren't for some unrelated bad luck. The circle track builders who have to use stock cam cores will send in their camshafts after a season or so many races. They'll find timing changed on lobes in the back due to camshaft twisting and then settling in. Per one cam grinder, they sometimes requires a mid season "tune up". I can't imagine an inline 6 not having this issue. Larger journal, aftermarket cores help with that, but it's pretty insane how much angular velocity changes there are in camshafts due to harmonics and the acceleration / deceleration of the valvetrain over each lobe. Honda has some good white papers on fighting this in their V8 F1 engine and Superbike engines (weighted cam gears for the latter), and Billy Godbold of Comp has a good one where they measured it on a Pro Stock engine, and has talked about the cam driven oil pumps dampen it a lot on Sprint Car engines (to the point, those engines would last 3 laps without it, with the lobes they are using).

You'll see some of the newer NASCAR cams unload on eBay come with cam cards with all the lobes measured on an Adcole. Here is one for a Toyota (when Triad went bankrupt, people bought and are selling their inventory on there. Fun to look at sometimes):
s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113197578263?h ... SwQ2JbcECm
 
Interesting! The numbers on that cam spec are pretty close to perfect, but I gather from what you say that this isn't always the case.

How big of an error is commonly found? (This is probably like asking "how long is a string?")
 
To quote Mike Jones:
Since you are checking the cam in a block.
You should be fine with +/- 3 degrees at .020", .050", and .200".
LSA should be within 1 degree.
Lift should be within .004"

If you were checking the cam with a cam doctor, Audie Cam Pro, or Adcole.
You should be fine within 2 degrees at .020", .050", and .200".
LSA should be within .5 degree.
Lift should be within .002"

Checking in a block isn't very accurate, so you have to loosen your tolorences.
Lifter bores aren't always correct.
The lifter rocks in the lifter bore.
A cam can be bent, and throw off the measurements.

We use the Audie Cam Pro system to measure our cams before we ship them.

As for when you should send a cam back, Whenever you're not happy with it. You're the customer
Click to expand...

Sent you a Pm. I’ll send you some reading material.
 
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